Asking for a raise

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Does anyone have any good advice for asking for a raise?

How much should I ask for? I dont want to seem greedy, but I also dont want to low ball myself.

I have a rough idea of how much I should be making based on a couple of references. One of which is salary.com. Another is the CFA's salary guide for 2005. The final is based on the number of hours I actually put in at work times my hourly salary. Surprisingly, they are all roughly the same.

The problem is that I live and work in relatively small city (compared to NY or Chicago). So the number of finance related jobs are limited.

Currently I receive a straight salary with no bonus opportunities, no 401k matching, and no consideration for OT. There is a "profit sharing" plan that goes straight into your 401k plan. I have no idea how much that is.

Any advice?
 
That seems very 1960s to go to the boss and ask for a raise. I believe now the raises are given as per your review. If you want a larger salary make yourself more marketable and switch jobs.
 
Your best bet is to bluff.

What I mean is, walk into your boss' office and tell him you've received another job offer that will pay you 10-20k more than what you're presently making. Tell him you'd like to give him the opportunity to match it.

If he says no, be prepared to walk away though, otherwise he'll know you were lying.
 
Yeah, be careful.

I reckon your options are:

1) Wait until the annual review and see what they offer.

2) Get another job offer and ask them to match it, but be prepared to walk if it comes to it.

3) Wait until you have a concrete achievement (such as passing a CFA level, or winning a big deal, etc) and then simply saying "now that I have achieved XYZ, perhaps we could review my package?"


I've done all three. Number 3 was actually very easy since I knew I was being paid a VERY poor wage and I had achieved loads in my time there. Even after the pay rise i was nothing more than a rounding error on his bonus.
 
The CFA salary survey is skewed towards high cost of living areas (NYC, London, etc). You can't expect to make as much in Indianapolis as you would in the same job in NYC. whatever the case - don't ask for a raise - make a case for why you deserve one - this has nothing to do with salary averages out there, but with your contribution to the firm. If this doesn't work, find a new job.
 
Take 20% off of the CFAI numbers and you might be in the range.

Anyone else agree, differ?
 
use a gun
i find it helps to clarify your points, and hold thier attention
just as with all other threats make sure you are ready to follow through
remember panama has no extradition treaty w/ the us



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at Wednesday, July 5, 2006 at 10:24AM by shadefx.
 
Another option would be blackmail. Try to catch him banging his secretary or something and THREATEN to out him.

He'll probably empty the coffers.
 
Sounds like you are in a smaller city and at a smaller firm. My advice is unless you are willing to relocate, asking for a raise could really ruin your relationship with management and hurt your chance at a promotion.

My advice would be to instead position yourself in the firm for a promotion. A promotion and a raise are sometimes the same thing. The difference with a promotion is you get a better title and the raise is then justified in the books, if not at that firm, at the next.

Are you currently a manager? I'm going to assume you aren't. So for your sake, look into getting additional licensing that managers need. Push the idea of you being a backup incase needed and tell them you really want to learn the information and state you'd even be willing to pay the costs of registration/study materials. Find out everything they have, what it took them to get there and what you can do to be that person. Approach them with some serious friend to friend advice.

"Hey Larry (your boss), do you have a second. I've been really thinking about the direction of my career in finance lately and was wondering if you could give me a little advice? You've been really successful and I was wondering if you could give me a few tips on areas I could improve in to make sure I'm on the right track for a role in management, etc."

Now here is the kicker. Larry is thinking, alright, here is a chance for me to toot my own horn and brag about how much sh1t I had to put up with and what it took me to get here. He's going to go on and on as if he's the absolute expert on the whole process and he just might be. The one thing you will find out about managers is they love being managers. They love the power and love thinking they are the best. Once he spills the beans on all his "secrets", it is then in his best interest to make sure he's not wrong. He's going to know where your head is at. He will know that you aren't planning on just leaving the firm or whatever. Nobody wants to put in extra time on someone who isn't ambitious outside of their own role at the firm.

Once he gets a feel for you being interested enough to come to him for advice, he will start feeding you more stuff and keep you more in the loop. I remember my first job in finance, an internship, they knew that I was so interested that I'd work for free just to catch a break. They could see that passion and I got to sit in on management level conference calls. Other people in the firm didn't even get that and I was an intern. It was that exercising of power and saying, "hey kid, come listen to this...or check out this really great internal doc I show my clients" that brings you into the circle of trust.

There is a wall between managers and employees at every firm. If your firm is small, you might not see it as much, but your managers will bring this mentality from their previous firms they worked at. They don't want to get too close to you and they don't want to jeopardize the power structure by being on equal footing in any way. So if you come in and they start giving you their tips and secrets on sucking up to managers and shining at the firm...then they just put themself in your shoes. Psychologically they just bumped you up. They don't see you the same after that.

I remember my first management role at a firm, you stand around talking with other managers and they talk bad about the non-managers. They joke about stuff that's not right and there is that better than you mentality going on. Non-management employees are kept out of the loop on a lot of stuff and are looked at as less ambitious people. There is that management mentality that they are where they are because they deserve to be there or don't have what it takes to be in management.

But that's not always true. It's all about simply knowing what to do and if someone is willing to give you that info and put time into your development and have a vested interest, well you've just broke through. I put myself in a spot where I was the best at the firm. They had to promote me because nobody could do the job better and if anyone was going to run that team, who better than the best person on it. Nobody questioned me for the promotion. It was clear. And it's typically always like that at most firms regarding promotions. It's typically the people you find yourself saying, "yeah, I figured they'd get the promotion." Sometimes it's talent, sometimes it's pure kissing up to management.

If you don't want to go this route, simply look into taking on more responsibilities. Instead of always doing your work, you need to find yourself working more efficiently/smartly to free up time to do important work. This shows them that you aren't some shmuck that just comes in and leaves. You have ideas, you are an important asset to the firm.

Then you just sit back and wait a while for a promotion on your next evaluation or when that opening comes up internally. Try to get titles right now not $$$. Screw a $10k raise if you can get the title without it. Tell them money isn't important to you. You want the knowledge and experience. That way you are moving your career forward and your earnings potential will follow. They could give you a $10k raise for nothing but you'll just end up going to the next firm down the line that won't pay you it. But if you have the title, the management level experience, well...you are on a higher playing field.

Your number one goal should be a promotion. And just to reiterate, a lot of promotions don't come with raises. It's a title change and often about respect. Like your first response to your question in this thread was that you don't deserve it. No respect! ha

But a title upgrade carries a lot of weight on a resume when another company calls to verify it. You are talking about a right of passage. I was seriously debating whether or not to post this information because of how simple and effective it is to follow. But f-it. I got a nice job in management.

Good luck.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at Wednesday, July 5, 2006 at 07:48PM by Fx.
 
This post doesn't pertain to me yet, but that seems like great info, FX.

But I have to ask..Will managers ever frown upon people looking for advice and such as you describe? And from a management standpoint, does it sound fake?
 
Okay,

I'm going to start by beating up on you and then give you some constructive help (I hope).

To start, your post was one of the most useless requests for assistance that I have read. When someone makes a decison they should obtain as much relevent info as possible so that the final analysis and conclusions that they present are logical, and grounded in facts.

You left out a little information like how long you've been at the company, is it your first job, when was your last raise (and your peers'?), are you a CFA charterholder yet, etc. What is the general comp policy at your firm - anniversary based performance and comp reviews or calender/fiscal year based (or nohing formal because its a very small shop)? Is the CFA relevent to your position? Are you in a line function (bonus would be expected) or are you in a support role (kiss it goodbye). Why don't you take a few minutes to check out the thing called a PROFIT SHARING PLAN because it is always possible that it may be somewhat generous. Find out what the vesting rules are. 401(k) matching is great but practically in many companys it doesn't amount to more than $2-3K at best. You can get some of your own tax deferrals with IRAs to compensate for the absence of a 401(k).

You talk about no consideration for OT. If you're in a role where you would expect OT, then you may not be in a bonus eligible position, and if you shouldn't be paid OT (ie you are a financial professional) why mention it?

Okay, here's the more constructive part.

Any broad based salary/compensation guides are pretty useless outside of the big centes as has been mentioned. You need to to figure out the numbers for your specific market. Look in the newspaper, look in careerbuilder.com and see what comps and jobs fit your background. If you don't find anything - well, that tells you what the supply/demand is against you and you will not have much power. If you get different information, well, I'd like to know some of the answers to the requests above so that i can give you better advise.

Hope this wasn't too harsh and was somewhat helpful.
 
say you are an analyst making $60k, and you can find jobs on careerbuilder.com etc., for $60k and some with undisclosed salary that may even be higher (that you think you have a chance at). is it fair to say if you have been at the firm for 2+ years, are a valuable employee, that you should get a "premium" to market value? my thinking is if you are going to pay me like a commodity, i'll do what commodities do - trade.
 
At my old job I went to HR and had a little chat. It was the best move I ever made - got an amazing raise. Sure it only made me stay an extra 6 months. Amazing how much power you have as a female on the street
 
TG,
If I were to drop about $30k now on sexual reassignment surgery, do you think this would pay off in greater lifetime earnings over the course of my career?
 
"is it fair to say if you have been at the firm for 2+ years, are a valuable employee, that you should get a "premium" to market value?"

In reality people tend to trade at a 'cant be bothered to get off his a*se and get another job ' discount.
 
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