FourCastles
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- Sep 22, 2006
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Hey, Danteshek, save the brownnosing and PC krrap for drinks with your boss, will ya?
Back Office to Front Office
- Thread starter FourCastles
- Start date
How is saying BO jobs are not as good as FO jobs arrogant? If you were to say that being a programmer is better than being a janitor, you're simply stating that on relative terms the conditions and reward of being a programmer are better than a janitor. The same applies here; a FO job is better than a BO job in terms of conditions and rewards. This is not to say that BO jobs suck or are unimportant to the business. Someone's got to do the dirty work (janitors and BO) but no one wants to do it so you might as well try for the FO jobs if you can get in.
Guess you're the disgruntled MO/BO employee of the month.
Guess you're the disgruntled MO/BO employee of the month.
Danteshek Wrote:
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> In my view, the companies that are team oriented
> don't have the mentality that is prevalent in this
> thread. I believe that team orientation is what
> makes asset management companies successful.
This is a very broad generalization. Not every asset management company is successful, and in fact, many of them are not. A team-oriented focus is essential in many larger companies in order to integrate business units and employees. Some of the places that put the most value on front office roles (think investment banks, major consulting firms, etc.) also value teamwork the most.
This is not intended to be a flippant remark, but for every person who thinks that it's unfair for a front office employee to be paid more than the back office, imagine how many more people would find it even more revolting if the back office worker were paid more than the front office employee. People don't work hard to get to the front office for nothing -- they should be compensated for their effort and output.
> This may not be the case on the sell side where
> performance by individuals matters more.
Fitting in as part of the team is equally essential on the sell-side, if not more so. Banking is one of the most team-oriented fields in finance, and relatively speaking, there is much more autonomy in front-office buy-side roles.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at Friday, July 6, 2007 at 10:25AM by numi.
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> In my view, the companies that are team oriented
> don't have the mentality that is prevalent in this
> thread. I believe that team orientation is what
> makes asset management companies successful.
This is a very broad generalization. Not every asset management company is successful, and in fact, many of them are not. A team-oriented focus is essential in many larger companies in order to integrate business units and employees. Some of the places that put the most value on front office roles (think investment banks, major consulting firms, etc.) also value teamwork the most.
This is not intended to be a flippant remark, but for every person who thinks that it's unfair for a front office employee to be paid more than the back office, imagine how many more people would find it even more revolting if the back office worker were paid more than the front office employee. People don't work hard to get to the front office for nothing -- they should be compensated for their effort and output.
> This may not be the case on the sell side where
> performance by individuals matters more.
Fitting in as part of the team is equally essential on the sell-side, if not more so. Banking is one of the most team-oriented fields in finance, and relatively speaking, there is much more autonomy in front-office buy-side roles.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at Friday, July 6, 2007 at 10:25AM by numi.
torontosimpleguy
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- Oct 10, 2006
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4Danteshek life is not fair my friend you just have to accept it
I didn't detect any arrogance in this thread. No one even used BOM!
Seriously though, this thread was nothing more than professionals discussing their experiences in the finance industry. Terms like back office, middle office, etc. are widely understood categories that broadly define job functions. It just makes things easier, it�s language we all understand and helps us avoid describing in excruciating detail each rung on our various career ladders. Because someone uses such terms does not mean that their organization views its staff in similar buckets.
I don�t think it should be any surprise that people on a CFA board are most interested in �front office� jobs. Clearly all business functions are very important to running a sell-side or buy-side firm, but if one dedicates a good chunk or one�s life outside to work to learning about investment analysis, I think it�s reasonable to want to employ those skills in a professional context. And, at least in my experience in the BO => MO => FO journey, there is a clear progression in terms of intellectual challenge, responsibility, job satisfaction, and remuneration.
Seriously though, this thread was nothing more than professionals discussing their experiences in the finance industry. Terms like back office, middle office, etc. are widely understood categories that broadly define job functions. It just makes things easier, it�s language we all understand and helps us avoid describing in excruciating detail each rung on our various career ladders. Because someone uses such terms does not mean that their organization views its staff in similar buckets.
I don�t think it should be any surprise that people on a CFA board are most interested in �front office� jobs. Clearly all business functions are very important to running a sell-side or buy-side firm, but if one dedicates a good chunk or one�s life outside to work to learning about investment analysis, I think it�s reasonable to want to employ those skills in a professional context. And, at least in my experience in the BO => MO => FO journey, there is a clear progression in terms of intellectual challenge, responsibility, job satisfaction, and remuneration.
torontosimpleguy Wrote:
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> 4Danteshek life is not fair my friend you just
> have to accept it
Life has been more than fair to me so far ... priviledged actually.
I don't bear a grudge against anyone.
>Guess you're the disgruntled MO/BO employee of the month.
I love my job, btw. I'm 25 and I'm doing what I'll be doing for the rest of my career - dealing with institutional AM clients.
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> 4Danteshek life is not fair my friend you just
> have to accept it
Life has been more than fair to me so far ... priviledged actually.
I don't bear a grudge against anyone.
>Guess you're the disgruntled MO/BO employee of the month.
I love my job, btw. I'm 25 and I'm doing what I'll be doing for the rest of my career - dealing with institutional AM clients.
Maverick22
New member
- Jun 8, 2007
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I find the back office vs front office conflict to be interesting. The first question I ask is does the front office have a superiority complex or does the back office have an inferiority complex.
These two areas have an adversarial relationship because their goals tend to not align. Front office wants to do more, do different things, and they want to do it yesterday. Back office wants to make sure everything settles and is accounted for in a smooth manner. Interestingly enough, clients want both. A manager may lose clients if the back office is incapable of meeting their clients needs.
It's understandable the front office people want to be paid more, they do spend a lot of time advancing their knowledge. You could of course question whether things like the CFA and MBA actually make people better money managers. And while I feel this is a valid question I am in process of getting my CFA because I feel it does help and certainly can�t hurt. And consultants and clients seem to like to see them.
As I stated before, you can pursue the back office to front office career path. I wouldn't wait too long in the back office though for fear of being type cast is a permanent back office employee, or somehow getting caught up in the mechanism of this adversarial relationship and becoming collateral damage. I also believe moving up might be easier with a different company in the event that one of the two things mentioned above have occurred. Always be looking to make your move, 1 year of back office experience will likely be viewed the same as 5 years, and 15 years of back office experience will likely be detrimental. (not impossible to break the type cast, but very challenging)
These two areas have an adversarial relationship because their goals tend to not align. Front office wants to do more, do different things, and they want to do it yesterday. Back office wants to make sure everything settles and is accounted for in a smooth manner. Interestingly enough, clients want both. A manager may lose clients if the back office is incapable of meeting their clients needs.
It's understandable the front office people want to be paid more, they do spend a lot of time advancing their knowledge. You could of course question whether things like the CFA and MBA actually make people better money managers. And while I feel this is a valid question I am in process of getting my CFA because I feel it does help and certainly can�t hurt. And consultants and clients seem to like to see them.
As I stated before, you can pursue the back office to front office career path. I wouldn't wait too long in the back office though for fear of being type cast is a permanent back office employee, or somehow getting caught up in the mechanism of this adversarial relationship and becoming collateral damage. I also believe moving up might be easier with a different company in the event that one of the two things mentioned above have occurred. Always be looking to make your move, 1 year of back office experience will likely be viewed the same as 5 years, and 15 years of back office experience will likely be detrimental. (not impossible to break the type cast, but very challenging)
nolabird032
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- Apr 11, 2007
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Danteshek Wrote:
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> That kind of thinking applies to people who want
> to be analysts and portfolio managers.
Are you surprised to find posters on a CFA forum, who are inspiring to be analysts/PMs? A is for Analyst (not Apple!)
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> That kind of thinking applies to people who want
> to be analysts and portfolio managers.
Are you surprised to find posters on a CFA forum, who are inspiring to be analysts/PMs? A is for Analyst (not Apple!)
stylemog Wrote:
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> what does client services do?
At a junior level you are reporting portfolio performance and structure, communicating with clients and consultants on day to day issues. You are essentially the back up to the relationship manager when he or she is out (which is a lot).
At a senior level you meet with the clients, cross sell, and prospect for new institutional clients. At a big firm this means that you are responsible for bringing in billions on an annual basis.
-------------------------------------------------------
> what does client services do?
At a junior level you are reporting portfolio performance and structure, communicating with clients and consultants on day to day issues. You are essentially the back up to the relationship manager when he or she is out (which is a lot).
At a senior level you meet with the clients, cross sell, and prospect for new institutional clients. At a big firm this means that you are responsible for bringing in billions on an annual basis.
HoldSideAnalyst
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- Apr 12, 2007
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Billons with a capital B like Booyah!