CFA, MBA, and My Thoughts

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HarryBuffowitz

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I finished the CFA program last year, fortunately passing each of the exams on my first attempt. I used this forum as a reference, and I believe that the things I read here helped me pass. Like many CFA candidates, I was curious how powerful the CFA was, how it stacked up against other accomplishments, and if the charter could help me get into a good MBA program. I feel like the information that I took away from this forum was great in regard to the exam, but I found many of the other things I read (i.e. the items mentioned above) to be misguided. Many people on the forum like to get into the CFA versus MBA debate or to spread their �expert� knowledge of what a top MBA program looks for. I feel like I owe it to share my thoughts, which are based on my own experiences, to those who are looking for honest, first-hand insight as I was when I started the CFA quest four years ago.

Facts about me: A lot of people on this forum give advice, criticism, and opinions yet don�t tell their audience who they are. I think it is important to know where the message is coming from. I am a CFA charter holder and MBA student in a top 5 MBA program. I have been in the investment management business for 7 years, mostly as a portfolio specialist. I went to a subpar university where I earned well below average grades.

CFA versus MBA:
This is a stupid argument. They are different things that offer different advantages. In my opinion, the only absolute is anyone who claims that either the CFA or an MBA is overrated, easy, not important, etc is an idiot.

Not only did my confidence go up the first time I handed out my business card with �CFA� behind my name but people also looked at me differently. Anyone who knows anything in the investment business knows how grueling the CFA program is and what a great investment knowledge base it establishes. If nothing else, having �CFA� behind your name tells everyone that you work hard and take finance seriously. Many extremely smart people attempt the CFA to no avail.

An MBA is also a wonderful accomplishment. I find that the MBA experience is great for practical application, business breadth, and networking. Finance isn�t everything. A well rounded business education is also important. CEOs of investment management firms need to understand marketing, management, and operations as well as investments in order to be successful.

Does the CFA help with MBA admissions?
Without a doubt, having gone through the CFA program helps in MBA admissions. I do not understand how any self-proclaimed �expert� could say otherwise. I in no way believe that the CFA can singlehandedly get someone into a top MBA program, but saying the CFA doesn�t help is almost like saying volunteering at the local soup kitchen doesn�t help. Business schools look for well-rounded individuals whose success comes through in their work experience, education, GMAT, and essays/interviews. By the way, do not underestimate the power of great essays and interviews, which give you the chance to tell your story and connect the dots. As I mentioned, I was a terrible student in the past. I did not care about much that mattered until I had already destroyed my academic record. After joining the workforce and falling in love with the markets, I knew I needed to build my knowledge base and my credentials. Like it or not, finance is an industry of credentials. I knew I couldn�t get into a good MBA program without building the other areas of my application. I built my work experience as I went through the CFA program. The CFA showed the admissions departments that I was in fact intelligent despite my brutal (it was seriously awful) GPA from a subpar school. The CFA is difficult and is something you should be proud of. For me, I was able to build my investment knowledge and show the world that I had changed. Business schools generally look at work experience, GMAT, essays/interviews, and past education. The CFA is a furthering of your education as is any other masters degree. It may not feel like you are getting credit for the CFA program, but you are. The person who interviews you may very well not know what the CFA is, but someone on the board of admissions most certainly does. I applied to two top 5 schools, and both of them knew what the program entailed.

To wrap this incredibly long post up, both the CFA and MBA are important and incredible accomplishments. Anyone who tells you otherwise usually doesn�t have both or either. If you ever feel like you need an MBA or a CFA or some other credential, get it. Don�t argue about what credential is better because sooner or later you are going to look stupid and insecure. The CFA does help in MBA admissions just like any other piece of your application, but it�s up to you to connect the dots and tell your story to the admissions department. If it wasn�t for the CFA, I wouldn�t be at the school I attend, but the CFA is not a loophole.

I hope some of you found this helpful. There will be naysayers, but I don�t care about them. If this was insightful to at least one person who, like me four years ago, started the CFA to better themselves and build their resume, that is good enough for me.
 
Harry,

Thank you for sharing your experience and opinion on the issue. This post should be a sticky. Aside from it's educational value it most certainly would save a lot of space on the board, as well as lost time for those who answer questions that have already been covered in great detail in the past.
 
hey HarryBuffowitz,

If you don't mind, please shoot me an email

mindlikewater8 at gmail
 
Your post is really enlightening and raises my spirits.

I'm kind of in the same situation right now (graduated with terrible GPA (didn't give a damn at the time) and had awful and numerous personal issues) but I graduated from a top 5 undergrad business university (finc, acc). and did one front office internship. Unfortunately, I was more interesting in studying history than studying business back in college, so strangely enough I graduated with a strong conception of modern history.

I've since resolved all my deep personal issues, matured a tremendous deal, and have been unemployed (but not searching yet) for the past year and a half.

Ironically, this period has been an incredible learning experience for me as I've been enhancing my knowledge more than those short and uncomprehensive b-school courses ever could- ie. taking the CFA and buying/completing dozens of major and most useful books about finance, economics, management, operations (1 book so far), and marketing (1 book so far). I am expanding my investment skills and I intend to follow this up with financial modeling studies and creating a body of work to develop practical skills before I go into the job market (probably will intern again, first).

I'm determined to go through the path to become a PM and I believe that my mind is up to the challenge as long as I keep going and do not give up.

-------------------------------------------------------
> Finance isn�t everything. A well rounded business
> education is also important. CEOs of investment
> management firms need to understand marketing,
> management, and operations as well as investments
> in order to be successful.

I started to recognize this, too, and I've notice Drucker/Porters major works on management. I also have a "practical" generalist tome on financial operations which is said to be highly useful. What did you do to expand your tertiary knowledge? (management, operations, marketing?)
 
Excellent post and thank you very much for sharing your thoughts.

I admire your focus and determination
 
Appreciate your inputs as you come fair and clean. Although your answers do not provide bed and roses to enthusiast CFA gold diggers here, it reflects a reality touch.

On top of the informative message, I am happy for you. You've come a long way to achieve the credentials you deserved. But there must be something that ignited your spirit to work like grunt for academic excellence, knowing you got a below avg grades during your undegrad. Mind sharing the anecdote?
 
Thanks Harry for the fair and enlightening post. The post like this summarizes all the discussions around MBA and CFA and provides a conclusion instead of lenghthy arguments (which is generally missing).
 
that post was too long for me. Can someone tell me which one is better, the CFA or MBA? Also, please define a top 5 MBA school. Thanks.
 
Thanks Harry for clearing some of our doubts. I always knew that getting a CFA would help with the MBA applications and getting into top-10 program.
 
>>>Does the CFA help with MBA admissions?
>>>Without a doubt, having gone through the CFA program helps in
>>>MBA admissions. I do not understand how any self-proclaimed �expert�
>>>could say otherwise.

This seems a little too simplistic. Of course the CFA helps, but you also have to take into account the opportunity cost of those hundreds of hours of study. MBA programs value leadership, teamwork, and getting out and making a difference. The CFA is none of these things.

So it really depends on what you would do with your time if you weren�t studying for the CFA. Because if you want to go to a good program, there may be better things you can do than a CFA.
 
I think he addressed it with:

"The CFA does help in MBA admissions just like any other piece of your application, but it�s up to you to connect the dots and tell your story to the admissions department."

So the lesson:

It matters not what you do (CFA or whatever), only that you can show justice in the essay.

Conclusion:

Essay is the most important!



naturallight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>Does the CFA help with MBA admissions?
> >>>Without a doubt, having gone through the CFA
> program helps in
> >>>MBA admissions. I do not understand how any
> self-proclaimed �expert�
> >>>could say otherwise.
>
> This seems a little too simplistic. Of course the
> CFA helps, but you also have to take into account
> the opportunity cost of those hundreds of hours of
> study. MBA programs value leadership, teamwork,
> and getting out and making a difference. The CFA
> is none of these things.
>
> So it really depends on what you would do with
> your time if you weren�t studying for the CFA.
> Because if you want to go to a good program, there
> may be better things you can do than a CFA.
 
Excellent post. I didn't think I would read the whole thing but I did. Nothing beats someone sharing an actual personal experience.
 
You got into a top 5 MBA program with a subpar GPA from a subpar university with portfolio specialist experience? Wow. You must have some other highlights that you didn't mention and/or a phenomenal GMAT because the CFA designation alone wasn't enough to get you past those pitfalls.
 
I'm not surprised. The whole process often seems like a crapshoot.
 
Good to hear a little positively on a topic that seems to invite an outpouring of pessimism on this board.
 
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