Day Trading for 2nd Income?

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sjv1030

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Hey AFers,
Every day I think about what other side business I can start to supplement my current income from my FT job. The only thing I can come up with is day trading stocks. I’m lucky that my job allows me to have every 2nd Friday off. I’m on call, but I can be at home (NYC).
I’m thinking of using those 2 days per month to make some modest income through day trading. I’m guess I’m wondering if anyone else out there uses day trading (regardless of stock/options/FX) as a supplemental income on a consistent basis and how long it took actually set up a profitable system/process?
Thanks!
PS. Good luck studying for June exams….my L2 studying is suffering right now bc of work…
 
Your studying is suffering because of work yet you have every other friday off and looking to take on another job.
You want to day-trade and count on that as regular income even though “experts” who do this for a living can lose their shirt and you’d only be truly dialed into the markets every two weeks.
Sounds like you have everything figured out! Good luck.
 
Luckily enough I’ve been on AF for 2+ years and can pick up on online sarcasm….
but wow, as future analysts, maybe we should learn to not jump to conclusions on an incomplete data set Danny Boy….
for example, maybe you could’ve asked if there was something else taking up my time….like…the fact that I started the job in December of 2010 and am still getting my bearings and that I’m in a masters program as well….just saying….but thanks for the Good Luck :)
Thanks, but I’m fully aware of the risks of trading (I currently trade on the side holding positions for 6-12 months). But, I was curious about day trading in particular (no over night positions) and I wouldn’t be using leverage.
 
I’m not a future analyst.
Analysts use incomplete information 100% of the time. They never have complete information. They use the information they have and make reasonable assumptions to complete the picture.
It’s your money, not mine. I personally don’t consider it a second job - I consider it gambling. Nothing wrong with gambling. In fact I know a guy who very recently left a prestigious PM position in a large buyside shop to devote more time to poker. If you’re comfortable with the risks then have fun.
 
This post is absurd.
New job, masters program, level 2 studying, and trade on the side? I traded for years (devoted thousands of hours to this craft), and have probably met about 200 traders; if you think you can make money doing this only twice a month you’re seriously out to lunch - GL!
 
sjv1030 Wrote:
——————————————————-
> about day trading in particular (no over night
> positions) and I wouldn’t be using leverage.
Ahahaha that last part takes the cake!
 
Day trading is generally not economical to do on a small scale. Even if you are super talented, the trading costs will almost definitely eat up all your profits.
 
spreads Wrote:
——————————————————-
> This post is absurd.
> New job, masters program, level 2 studying, and
> trade on the side? I traded for years (devoted
> thousands of hours to this craft), and have
> probably met about 200 traders; if you think you
> can make money doing this only twice a month
> you’re seriously out to lunch - GL!
What spreads said seems about right. If you want my opinion, I will sound off as everyone else has said:
1) It will be very hard to learn to do, esp. 2x a month…
2) Trading costs are substantial for small investors.
3) On an hourly basis, your time could by far be better spent on more conventional sources of income. Go tutor people for the SATs or walk dogs or something, anything that doesn’t risk your capital. Trading “as a second income” is not a proposition where you can only make money. Everytime you log on to trade, you are risking the money you already have. Remember that.
 
The OP has vanished, this has got to be an April Fools joke.
 
@sjv1030, Only Day Trade if the following apply:
1. You can be calm and can think rationally in a storm
2. Practice your strategy first and perfect it before you use real money
3. You are using leverage; think economies of scale
4. You’re not trading with your lunch money; i.e., whatever money you put up, you can afford to loose and not loose sleep over it
5. You are genuinely smart; (I had a professor who day traded using his modified Black Scholes model that he developed to trade mispricings in options to pay his living expenses while completing his PHD in Finance (in the 80’s); but he said he would not day trade today because a lot of the low risk arbitrage opportunities are gone).
My personal opinion is don’t day trade, instead go long and think long term. I personally lost about $8,000 day trading when I had started my Masters program and thought I was the next Gordon Gecko; since that day I’ve vowed to only buy and hold so I only trade in my Roth IRA account.
 
When you have the time/motivation/skills for it I’d go for it, but I would keep two things in mind:
-Most day traders lose money (especially in their first year). Only a relatively small percentage of traders are consistently profitable.
-Only trade with money you can afford to lose (like the previous poster said).
 
hey, sorry…I didn’t disappear just got caught up with my boss and lunch with a friend.
but, you guys bring up very good points. Thanks!! It’s good to get that shock of reality when those half-a$$ed ideas come to mind.
but, man, I guess I just really want a side gig that interests me and following the markets is one of the few things I get excited about. Back to the drawing board.
Do any of you guys do anything market related for side income?
 
sjv1030 Wrote:
——————————————————-
> but, man, I guess I just really want a side gig that interests me and following the markets is one of the few things I get excited about. Back to the drawing board.
Dude, if you want to do it, just do it, it’s just green paper and at the rate we’re going they’ll be plenty more to go around. If you approach it somewhat sensibly you’re probably not going to ‘blow-out’, but you’re also probably going to lose a little - consider it the cost of experience.
There’s something trading all the time, if you want to follow the markets and trade, follow them on your own time - you can follow FX at night, equity indices on those Friday’s, and any other thing at any odd hour. Who knows, you may like it and be extremely good at it, or maybe not - either way, still a good experience imo.
 
I mostly agree with Zesty.
I did day trading for a few months. There’s no profit in it unless you’re using a bunch of leverage. That means you may need to get associated with a trading shop that will let you do it cheaply, which means you’d probably have to quit your job due to the conflict of interest.
Where I would disagree is that there’s no opportunities. It remains to be seen if you have an edge or not. When I was trading, I knew guys that made 300k a year with their day trading (average was probably closer to 75k though). Granted, they’d be doing it a long time and used a bunch of leverage. For most people it’s not going to be that profitable, but there are some guys that can find an edge and make some bank.
 
@jmh530, How much leverage are we talking about to make 300k a year day trading?
 
Well these guys were trading the open, so they might have had 20k-50k in an account and were able to put out orders for 1-2mn, though only a fraction of that would actually be filled. I didn’t sit near those guys, but I would guess they easily had 10-20 times leverage at times. No way for me to be sure though.
 
jmh530 Wrote:
——————————————————-
> Well these guys were trading the open, so they
> might have had 20k-50k in an account and were able
> to put out orders for 1-2mn, though only a
> fraction of that would actually be filled. I
> didn’t sit near those guys, but I would guess they
> easily had 10-20 times leverage at times. No way
> for me to be sure though.
I know what strategies you’re referring too, leverage might not be the same for these guys if they’re not holding overnights and also have been profitable for a long time. I can tell you this from personal experience that most of these guys aren’t doing anywhere near where they used to be, the edges have just been gamed (not entirely, but the easy money is gone) due to the algos. To put in perspective, I once had a chat with a trader that from 2002-2008 had 3 losing days in the market; last time we spoke he hadn’t been actively trading (partly due to personal commitments) but that a lot of his edges had disappeared to the extent it wasn’t nearly as lucrative (or in some cases even worthwhile) to continue trading.
 
LPoulin133 Wrote:
——————————————————-
> sjv1030 Wrote:
> ————————————————–
> —–
> > but, man, I guess I just really want a side gig
> that interests me and following the markets is one
> of the few things I get excited about. Back to
> the drawing board.
>
> Dude, if you want to do it, just do it, it’s just
> green paper and at the rate we’re going they’ll be
> plenty more to go around. If you approach it
> somewhat sensibly you’re probably not going to
> ‘blow-out’, but you’re also probably going to lose
> a little - consider it the cost of experience.
>
> There’s something trading all the time, if you
> want to follow the markets and trade, follow them
> on your own time - you can follow FX at night,
> equity indices on those Friday’s, and any other
> thing at any odd hour. Who knows, you may like it
> and be extremely good at it, or maybe not - either
> way, still a good experience imo.
I really disagree with this advice. I know lots of guys that didn’t make anything in trading and have basically a black hole of time spent not earning income; so try telling your family how this is better than working at mcdonalds over 2-3 years? The Good is that you may make some money but have little transferable skills into other occupations. The Ugly is that you lose a lot of money, have nothing to show for it and would have been far better off had you not even anticipated the notion.
If you don’t need the money and are willing to put in years spent toward developing necessary psychology and critical money management skills, then by all means. Trading is only really ideal is if you already work from home, or semi-retired (either way with ample free time on your hands) and you don’t need the income.
 
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