Guidance & Salary expectations out of college

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kkent, a 3.3 from any school is not a good GPA. it's a B average. sure, some of the private institutions have unfair grade inflation, but that doesn't justify getting a 3.3 at a state school, especially in something as easy as business school. finance is a super easy major compared to some others, so there are no bonus points there.

a 3.3 is a fine GPA for most jobs at most companies. the OP should be able to find a decent job with those qualifications, but please don't mislead him into thinking that he's entitled to some sort of elite track or that he is among the smartest in the world.
 
asd, you misinterpreted what I said. I don't think the poster (or anyone) is entitled to an elite track necessarily because of his/her GPA. What I was saying was that it boggles the mind that a 3.3 is looked down on so much because a 3.3 in finance at a state university (not at NYU, but a state university) is INCREDIBLY difficult to get.

One of my roommates and best friends in college was brilliant--absolutely brilliant. Monster SATs, home-schooled, insanely hard working, borderline math genius (not a math genius, but borderline) and he walked away with a 3.57 cumulative GPA and about a 3.4 in-major. Senior-level finance, at least at my state university, was an absolute killer.

To put it in perspective, I got 2 IB offers and 1 capital markets job offer with an in-major GPA in the mid-2s and I passed L1 of the CFA exam on the first try with 150 hours of study and 0 hours put in in the last 2 weeks. Mid-2s!
 
kkent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> asd, you misinterpreted what I said. I don't
> think the poster (or anyone) is entitled to an
> elite track necessarily because of his/her GPA.
> What I was saying was that it boggles the mind
> that a 3.3 is looked down on so much because a 3.3
> in finance at a state university (not at NYU, but
> a state university) is INCREDIBLY difficult to
> get.
>

kkent, i couldn't help but notice your penchant for superlatives as they seem to prevail in most of your posts, but a 3.3 GPA is not INCREDIBLE to get...in my opinion. then again, different people have different standards, so...
 
Danteshek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is no point fighting it.
>
> If you do well in your job and get the experience
> and qualifications, eventually you'll get in at a
> higher level than those 22 year old jokers with
> 3.9 GPAs.
>
> I agree with you that state universities are often
> overlooked. The accounting grads at Cal State
> Northridge are far more qualified to do IB than
> anyone from Harvard, which doesn't have a business
> program.

while it's true that not everyone can get a harvard education, there's no need to be such a hater
 
numi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Danteshek Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There is no point fighting it.
> >
> > If you do well in your job and get the
> experience
> > and qualifications, eventually you'll get in at
> a
> > higher level than those 22 year old jokers with
> > 3.9 GPAs.
> >
> > I agree with you that state universities are
> often
> > overlooked. The accounting grads at Cal State
> > Northridge are far more qualified to do IB than
> > anyone from Harvard, which doesn't have a
> business
> > program.
>
> while it's true that not everyone can get a
> harvard education, there's no need to be such a
> hater


I don't hate Harvard. My entire family went there for several generations. My parents were married while they were still undergrads at Harvard. My brother graduated in 2002 and was in the PC and Kroks.

I chose a liberal arts college and was admitted early. I withdrew my app to harvard and never regretted my decision.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at Monday, August 6, 2007 at 07:04PM by Danteshek.
 
numi, with all due respect, some of us actually attended universities with difficult academic standards beyond high school apps. Most universities don't give out grades so that their over-privileged student base is guaranteed law school admission.
 
kkent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> numi, with all due respect, some of us actually
> attended universities with difficult academic
> standards beyond high school apps. Most
> universities don't give out grades so that their
> over-privileged student base is guaranteed law
> school admission.

respectfully noted, but now i think you're just sounding spiteful and envious. however, just as you feel proud to go to your school, there are others that attended top tier universities who are similarly proud of their background. there's no need to try to slander or degrade their accomplishments (you do realize that nobody is actually insulting you, right?). in any case, hopefully you realize that calling people privileged and academically competent aren't exactly insults, but maybe this type of revelation only comes with age.

ultimately you can say what you want, but i am just trying very hard to understand how you can comment so freely on the experiences such as ivy league education, investment banking, and other topics where you really have no basis for criticism or experience with which to judge. you seem to do this quite a bit, and i really don't understand why this is the case.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at Monday, August 6, 2007 at 07:38PM by numi.
 
Dude, you effin' personally attacked me and arrogantly told Dante that he shouldn't be so bitter about not attending Harvard, told me that myself and pretty much my entire graduating class is an academic failure because we weren't handed grades on a silver platter, and called me "spiteful and envious." Yeah, I'm envious that you spent $200+k on your education and I spent $40k and got the same job or better as you coming out of college. Get a freakin' clue. You're an arrogant pric*k who thinks everyone is jealous of you because of your high school accomplishments.

You tell me I have no knowledge of:

1.) Ivy league education. Get a clue. My entire firm is comprised of Ivy Leaguers. I probably know more about Princeton than a Harvard or Penn grad knows about Princeton.

2.) Investment banking. I went through the recruiting process (successfully), work with a bunch of former investment bankers, and my firms clients are investment banks among others. You have no freakin' clue what you're talking about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at Monday, August 6, 2007 at 07:45PM by kkent.
 
the large banks that recruit for nyc do have very high gpa standards and they have a target list of top schools where they interview at. they may not take into account grade inflation completely across all schools but it's all relative within each school. not completely fair but it is what it is. they can and demand the best relying on gpa as measuring stick just as colleges use SATs for admission. maybe a 3.3 is a high gpa at your school but i'm sure someone there has a 3.5. at nyu, i had a 3.5 and i don't think i landed even 1 preselect from the bulge brackets. i did get a lot of attention from middle markets ib, consulting and accounting firms.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at Monday, August 6, 2007 at 08:02PM by fredfunk04.
 
kkent -- i never said your class was an academic failure or insinuated that you *weren't* handed grades on a silver platter. i never even told you where i went to college, or commented on what kind of job you got out of university. i never talked about my high school or college accomplishments on this thread, and have never once mentioned my GPA in any post on this forum. i've never debased the quality of education that one can get at a state school -- i was simply stating the reality that a 3.3 GPA is not "incredible," as you so eloquently put it. seems to me like you were the one debasing the achievements and credentials of those individuals who attended private schools. if you disagree with these statements, then show me where i said these things.

obviously, you're very proud of what you do, but you also have a very capable imagination because you are claiming that i said certain things when i didn't. it also amazes me how little composure you have -- but maybe you can get away with this type of reckless communication when you're on an internet forum and you think people have no idea who you are (when some of them do). but i'll leave it up to other people here to form their own opinions, since i don't see how this type of exchange is beneficial to either you or me.


(p.s. you can't even prove that i went to harvard or that i didn't go to whatever college danteshek went to. and danteshek, my apologies and complete understanding if you took my post the wrong way.)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at Monday, August 6, 2007 at 08:12PM by numi.
 
numi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> respectfully noted, but now i think you're just
> sounding spiteful and envious.
>
> ultimately you can say what you want, but i am
> just trying very hard to understand how you can
> comment so freely on the experiences such as ivy
> league education, investment banking, and other
> topics where you really have no basis for
> criticism or experience with which to judge. you
> seem to do this quite a bit, and i really don't
> understand why this is the case.

>while it's true that not everyone can get a harvard education, there's no need to be such a hater.

You want proof? There's your proof. It's a whole lot of garbage to claim you're not being a dick when you clearly are.

And yes, not everyone on message boards disguises their identities. I'm open and proud of who I am and where I've been. You can look me up in the white pages for all I care, and a lot of people have at analystforum. I'm proud to claim a dozen or so finance friends from this board, a number of whom I've talked to on the phone. Who the f*ck is numi?

numi:
(p.s. you can't even prove that i went to harvard or that i didn't go to whatever college danteshek went to)

Shows that among the 2 of us, you are the only one hiding behind a message board.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at Monday, August 6, 2007 at 08:15PM by kkent.
 
Well I have gotten some valuable feedback, and also spurred a message board brawl.

Guys let's calm down.

Numi no offense was taken at all. If you look towards my original post I stated, "My GPA is a 3.3. I know that is nothing special by any means."

One person spoke of the Econ Theory track at my school. I took several of those classes and my GPA got crushed. During that time I was also going through a lot of family trouble, it shouldn't have effected me but it did.

You also wrote about if the CFA L1 makes up for the lower GPA:
"in my opinion, no, because i would wonder why you would spend all this time on the CFA when you should have been getting your grades straight."

My grades were screwed up before that. And last Spring semester '07 (the semester before the test I had a 3.93 GPA and then took the CFA L1 immediately after and passed.

Taking L1 was not why my grades lacked before.

kkent: thanks for your heated support.

I don't care about being anonymous either. I thought that is just what people do here.

If you want to contact me wayne at nyu dot edu.

Anyone else with personalized advice or help can contact me also. I am on doostang, Linkedin, and facebook.

I feel like you have all given me great advice through the test and now after. Anyone who wants to network can contact me.

Best regards,
Wayne
 
KKent: Some of us went to top 5 state schools w/ business schools. And we know that while a 3.3 is good, it certainly isn't great.

I hate that I always get distracted by your whining (OMG! I HATE MY JOB!), but I feel the need to point out that your experience is NOT representative of other schools. Dare I say, you overestimate your peers at school?
 
And to speak to salary expectations:

If you are coming out of undergrad, expect a base of $60k at the major sell side firms, with an acceptable range dipping down to $55k or so. You would likely also get a $10k signing bonus.

They will won't give you any number that could even indicate that they are telling you what a year end bonus would be. However, at my firm and my friends firms, the average bonuses for front office roles (sales/trading/research/banking/capital markets) was in the $70-75k range.

As for buyside compensation: No clue.
 
kkent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> numi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > respectfully noted, but now i think you're just
> > sounding spiteful and envious.
> >
> > ultimately you can say what you want, but i am
> > just trying very hard to understand how you can
> > comment so freely on the experiences such as
> ivy
> > league education, investment banking, and other
> > topics where you really have no basis for
> > criticism or experience with which to judge.
> you
> > seem to do this quite a bit, and i really don't
> > understand why this is the case.
>
> >while it's true that not everyone can get a
> harvard education, there's no need to be such a
> hater.
>
> You want proof? There's your proof. It's a whole
> lot of garbage to claim you're not being a dick
> when you clearly are.
>
> And yes, not everyone on message boards disguises
> their identities. I'm open and proud of who I am
> and where I've been. You can look me up in the
> white pages for all I care, and a lot of people
> have at analystforum. I'm proud to claim a dozen
> or so finance friends from this board, a number of
> whom I've talked to on the phone. Who the f*ck is
> numi?
>


kkent, it's a shame that you're sorely missing the point. The point of it all is that you're making a whole load of assumptions and lashing out about things that weren't even said. I was making several objective points, yet you somehow made it into a personal case to flip out. I don't really care what you think about me, but the point is that you have a pretty wild imagination to go along with some other issues and insecurities that I can't even begin to identify. Just don't tell me that anyone else is being cocky or arrogant here when you're the one who blatantly states that you're someone who "got the same job or better [than me] coming out of college." I never once put you down for your dedication towards getting your job, and you've held a real-world job for less than half a year and still showboat around here like nobody's business.

For what it's worth, people do know who I am, but that's not even what's important. Actions speak louder than words, and hopefully the content of my posts speak for themselves. I was giving LICandidate the inside scoop as to how recruiting works so he could be prepared to explain for himself. He took my advice graciously, but he didn't have to -- but at least he'd learn it from me, anonymous guy on a message boards rather than in a real-life interview.

You've been out of college for a few months and think you're a big shot already, telling people what they should and shouldn't talk about, while degrading others who contribute constructively to this board and speak from experience and fact rather than pure conjecture (BTW, what you did to commstudent this weekend was totally unfair). It's a shame that you're so quick to dump insults onto others, but can't accept the facts when others present it to you in a calm and composed manner.

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at Monday, August 6, 2007 at 09:26PM by numi.
 
FIAnalyst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And to speak to salary expectations:
>
> If you are coming out of undergrad, expect a base
> of $60k at the major sell side firms, with an
> acceptable range dipping down to $55k or so. You
> would likely also get a $10k signing bonus.
>
> They will won't give you any number that could
> even indicate that they are telling you what a
> year end bonus would be. However, at my firm and
> my friends firms, the average bonuses for front
> office roles
> (sales/trading/research/banking/capital markets)
> was in the $70-75k range.
>
> As for buyside compensation: No clue.


Thank you FIAnalyst that was one of the most helpful posts so far.

How hard do you think it will be for me to get in one of the major sell side firms?


And Numi and Kkent you have both given some valuable advice in the beginning of my post, but if you are going to continue to argue, please do it in another post. This is very important to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at Monday, August 6, 2007 at 09:29PM by LICandidate.
 
Obviously, grammar isn't a concern for getting hired, as I just read my post again, and it was painful.

It will take a lot of legwork. Just get out there and contact anyone you can. Get your resume and face in front of them. Summers are usually a quiet time that works well for this, however, this summer will definitely be different for some groups.
 
Thanks I have already started to contact some people but I will amp it up now on your advice.
 
You have a ton of NYU grads on the street, so getting in touch with them shouldn't be very hard. Good luck.
 
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