Liens

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Anyone have experience with them? Either placing one on somebody's property, having one placed on you, and/or disputing one. Was talking to a guy today who said some random scam artist put a tax lien on his credit record and his wife, who happened to be an attorney, threatened to file suit against the scammer and they retracted it.
 
Guys in jail who are serving life sentences like to put liens on judges and lawyers because they think it's funny (it is damn funny, actually) and because they're already in jail so what the hell. If I was in jail I'd be doing that for sure.
 
I have a lot of experience with them. A debt is required in order for a lien to be put in place; you can't just go around "putting a lien on" people for no reason/at will.

A tax lien can only be in respect of unpaid taxes and only put in place by and in favor of a taxing authority, so unless the scam artisit referred to in the first post above somehow had the power to levy taxes the story is impossible. It may be possible for, say, someone to have a tax lien show up on their credit record as a result of someone else frauduently using their social security number and then themselves not paying taxes due, but a "scam artist" cannot simply create a tax lien against someone.

I think what KJH is referring to is inmates filing false UCC financing statements. Financing statements are just a way to perfect (a technical legal term) an underlying security interest in certain kinds of property under certain circumstances and do not create a security interest or lien (or a debt where none exists) themselves. They'd really have no substantive effect when filed falsely by an inmate, although I suppose they could cause problems if the person they were filed against wanted to take out a secured loan and the prospective lender ran across them (not sure how likely that would be in normal circumstances). If they were false they could be removed but it could be a bit of a headache. Apparently inmates have gotten long prison sentences for this, at least when filing against judges. That seems sort of out of proportion to the harm done, but I guess it's based on the principle that we don't want folks harassing judges.

Here is a link to a partial explanation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lien



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at Wednesday, June 24, 2009 at 07:10AM by Captain Windjammer.
 
Windjammer is dead on

sounds like a background in banking~Good deal
 
Captain Windjammer - let me say you are full of crap as always. I will now put a lien on you just to prove that I can. You will be very sorry. What is your social security #?
 
What about non-tax liens like a mechanic's lien. Ex. I'm thinking about giving the finger to the architect who tried to rip me off for $2000, can he slap a lien on my apartment without winning a judgment in court first. And if he does can I sue him for abuse of process and collect punitive damages?
 
I don't have much experience with mechanic's liens and don't remember the particulars of your case. If you used the architect's plans to improve your apartment (that is, you went ahead with the work and made improvements based on the plans) I think he or she would probably already have a mechanic's lien as to some or all of what you owe him or her, simply by operation of statute without doing anything further. He or she would probably have had to give notice and/or make certain filings to perfect the security interest and/or maintain its priotity vis a vis other creditors, but that's not so much your concern as it only has to do with his or her status vis a vis those other creditors and not with whether you owe him or her the money or he or she has a remedy. I don't think you'd be in a position to sue him or her for punitive damages simply for taking action to perfect the lien, achieve priority, etc. because it's a lien provided for by statute and perfecting, etc. is what the law expects the architect to do. Again, I don't remember the details of your case and it's possible you may have a claim for something else he or she did.

If there is a dispute regarding the amount of the bill (again, I don't remember), that is a different matter from whether or not the architect has a security interest (read "lien"). The security interest goes to whether the debt is secured but has nothing to do with the amount of the debt, which is a contractual matter.

If the architect drew up plans for you but you never went ahead with the work, he or she may not have a security interest at all; I wouldn't think he or she would, in fact, but I"m not sure about this.

A lawyer with experience in these matters should be able to answer these questions off the top of his or her head and not charge you too much to do it. Whether it is worth fighting for $2000 is another question, and it may not be.
 
It's sounds like you are a lawyer thus what you say is full of treachery and deceit. I have placed a lien against your social security number (it took me all day but I figured out your "telephone encryption code"). HAH. You suck.
 
Thanks for the advice. The architect was actually hired by the building's board to review a minor renovation plan for my apartment. There was no stated fee prior to the review other than a line in the alteration agreement that said that "building may hire an architect to review your plans and bill you accordingly." When the architect came back with the $2000 bill, the building's management company automatically filed a dispute on my behalf because they said the cost was outrageous and unjustified given the scope of work they were hired to do. Apparently the architect has always historically charged $500 even for major renovations where two apartments were combined, etc. and for some reason they decided to run up the cost this time around. Does this affect my standing at all regarding any possible liens for non-payment?
 
I am not sure the potential lien is what I'd focus on at this point; query whether the architects would really try to force you to sell your apartment or something to recoup $2000, even if they could, and it may be as much a matter of protecting your credit rating as anything else since they may be able to send it to a collection agency if you don't pay. You may have already done so, but I'd try talking to them, especially since the building is on your side and they are trying to charge you an unusually high fee; seems like there'd be a pretty good chance they'd lower the bill if you just agree to pay. You have a certain amount of leverage since you are the one with the money and they're the ones trying to get it from you, and it is a hassle for them to try. As far as legal measures are concerned, I'd wait until they insist on a deal you're not happy with and tell you they're going to send it to collections or try to enforce their lien and then maybe try to consult a lawyer who does this stuff for a living to see if there's anything you can do. Unfortunately if you have to pay a lawyer to argue about this for you or heaven forbid go to court you will very quickly defeat your purpose of trying to save some money. You could look into small claims court and representing yourself but I don't know how much help that would be in a situation like this. Just some general thoughts; I hope they help. Good luck.
 
Yeah I'm pretty sure I'm going to tell them to go f themselves. I'm willing to spend $2G's on an attorney to save that 2G's and shame these guys in the process. They're probably going to lose my building's business and I hope to file enough complaints with regulatory bodies in the city to put a crimp in their style with other customers.
 
I think Captain Windjammer can place a lien on you for at least 2 grand for free legal advice
 
JohnThainsLimoDriver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm willing to spend $2G's on an
> attorney to save that 2G's

^^ Hence why there are so many lawyers in the US. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_country_in_the_world_has_most_lawyers_per_capita
 
I admit it, I'm a vindictive motherf*kker. This idiot is trying to take food off my table and clothes off my back, why not do the same to them.
 
Because... anything that involves lawyers usually makes both sides suffer. On the other hand, childish/wacky anonymous pranks will make you feel a whole lot better.
 
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