Minneapolis bridge

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JoeyDVivre

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What happened here? If this was a terrorist incident, there are huge implications for capital markets. It seems that everyone is dismissing that because Homeland Security says it wasn't terrorists. Huh? I can think of all kinds of ways of taking down a bridge that Homeland Security couldn't find without at least a few days and a few engineers on the scene. They haven't even finished recovering bodies.

I hope this was metal fatigue, aeroelastoic resonance, barge hitting support tower, etc. but if another bridge comes down soon, there's a big problem.

Edit: personal story - In 1977, I went to the national Boy Scout jamboree where they installed all these floating temporary bridges. What became pretty clear was that if everyone marched in unison, the bridge would resonate and you could get really crazy torsional vibrations while someone was singing cadence. So, of course, there was this great irony of trying to be very military, disciplined but walking like drunk sailors on this torsional wave. Being boys, we all thought this was great until one of the bridges rotated so much it threw a troop into the lake (which some of us still thought was great). Anyway, they made us stop marching when we were on the bridges.

Edit2: And for you engineer-types this is a fine example of a self-limiting oscillation. As the bridge started twisting, it became harder and harder to march, thus limiting the impact of the vibrating force.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at Thursday, August 2, 2007 at 08:53AM by JoeyDVivre.
 
not sure what would be reassuring - terrorist act or simple collapse (after passing two recent inspections)
for the moments my thoughts and sympathy are with the victims and their families
 
I used to drive over that bridge all of the time when I was going to the UofMN. It wasn't the most robustly designed bridge and apparently it was just structural failure.
 
Until about 2 months ago I lived 5 blocks from there. I used to take it all the time, and walk under it. It's much higher than it looks on TV.
 
JoeyDVivre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What happened here? If this was a terrorist
> incident, there are huge implications for capital
> markets. It seems that everyone is dismissing
> that because Homeland Security says it wasn't
> terrorists. Huh? I can think of all kinds of
> ways of taking down a bridge that Homeland
> Security couldn't find without at least a few days
> and a few engineers on the scene. They haven't
> even finished recovering bodies.

indeed, I have no idea if this was a terrorist act or not,
but the speedy denial brings recollections of that plane crash in Queens (American Airlines Flight 587) right after 9/11 which the feds claimed wasn't terrorism.

Trust God and keep your powder dry
 
I wonder if Al Qaida has been thinking about more low-profile terrorism (remember the pipe burst in midtown manhattan about 2 weeks ago). Everyone thinks "terrorism" and gets scared but then it's just some infrastructure cracking.

I'm trying to figure this out. On the one hand, Al Qaida could do this to try to desensitize people before something much bigger. It doesn't really seem to fit their goals to destroy infrastructure without taking some credit for it, so the only point of being secretive is to 1) practice operations without calling attention to themselves while they figure out what works, and 2) desensitize the public and prepare for something bigger.

The other possibility is that the attention to terrorism and military actions has just reduced our awareness of general infrastructure maintenance, and now we're paying that price as lamp posts and fire hydrants start exploding across the country.
 
bchadwick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder if Al Qaida has been thinking about more
> low-profile terrorism (remember the pipe burst in
> midtown manhattan about 2 weeks ago). Everyone
> thinks "terrorism" and gets scared but then it's
> just some infrastructure cracking.
>
> I'm trying to figure this out. On the one hand,
> Al Qaida could do this to try to desensitize
> people before something much bigger. It doesn't
> really seem to fit their goals to destroy
> infrastructure without taking some credit for it,
> so the only point of being secretive is to 1)
> practice operations without calling attention to
> themselves while they figure out what works, and
> 2) desensitize the public and prepare for
> something bigger.
>
> The other possibility is that the attention to
> terrorism and military actions has just reduced
> our awareness of general infrastructure
> maintenance, and now we're paying that price as
> lamp posts and fire hydrants start exploding
> across the country.


I definitely think that we have diverted too many funds to improper uses. We have stuck more than 300bn into Iraq. During the same time you've seen the NYC steampipe explosion (my building was right next to it, we didn't get back in for a week), this bridge collapse, the Aug 2003 blackout (which I was at the top of the ESB during the time after an interview with CS).

What's ironic is that Selig was in Minneapolis for a groundbreaking ceremony for a new Twins stadium. Yet more tax dollars put into items that aren't needed and do not prevent these issues.

a lot of the bridges in that area seem a little under maintained. I remember walking on the Washinton Avenue bridge to and from the East and West Bank of the UofMN and looking at the crappy quality of the whole structure.
 
To follow on JD's post, check out the Tacoma Bridge collapse due to resonance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mclp9QmCGs

The great Von Karman testified in court when the judge asked him what caused the bridge to collapse simply saying "It's the wind". My aeroelasticity professor (Prof. Liberescu who was recently killed at the Virginia Tech shooting) told us this story, just rememered him.
 
There is a fine line between logic and paranoia sometimes.

Something unforunate happened in 2001 which was the work of radical fundamentalists who have something messed up in their heads....It was disgusting.

However, it does not mean that everytime something happens again, it is the work of terrorists!! Soon any car accident on the road or a person having the runs to the loo would be terrorist handywork too!

All I mean to say is that life for everyone has to move on, if you start living in paranoia forever, I believe those terrorists will achieve a lot in killing you mentally even if no physical damage is being done! So dont jump the gun....let the agencies do their work, and I believe a Stress Analysis failure is more of an engineering mishap rather than putting everything on hypothetical fundamentalisits....
 
I would have to agree with me_here.

Guess the terrorists got want they wanted after all : Everytime something goes wrong (think NYC steam tunnel about a month ago), everybody screams Terrorism
 
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