Portfolio Managers

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FrankArabia

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from your experiences, how do Portfolio Managers get their start? In particular, the PMs who run the mutual funds at the big banks in Canada.
 
buyside analysts. rarely, it seems that PMs come from the sell-side
 
joey, not at all. i had the liberty to speak to some ibankers, and from that, i learned that i better keep my options opened. one of the things that i didn't like hearing from ibankers was the fact that their job was "brainless". nonetheless, i'm still very attracted to the idea of how ibankers make money. but i think my chances are very slim right now, and the only way for me in ibanking would be an MBA, which i might take in 3 years if i can get into a top school.

I'm a thinker and academic at heart, so i don't think i'll fair too well in an environment with very little intellectual adventures. one ibanker even told me that i should look into research associate because he thought i was doing too much thinking and ibankers don't think, they just do.

in addition to this, i think my chances of getting into anything but ibanking is a lot greater.
 
Frank, so you want to look into ibanking? Did your friend mention what side of research? I would assume it's sell side.
 
no, they didin't mention that in particular. though they did mention that you could get stuck on either the buy or sell. They brought it up because they said the research guys generate a lot of ideas and do a lot of thinking, but they do get paid less.
 
I can see that. One other question, are you posting from the Middle East? I ask this, because I am thinking of doing a short internship in research in Dubai of Jordan? What do you think do you know anyone who has gone abroad, particularly in middle east and what was their experience like?
 
Here's my $0.02.

There are two types of Portfolio Mangers that claim the titles as PM.

The first type is not a real portfolio manager in my estimation but rather a banker in disguised. Basically, these individuals don't care about where the market is heading or strategic in thinking. Rather, they follow the bank's allocation guidelines into which mutual fund they should allocate the bank's client money. These individuals may or may not be CFA charterholders and just want to make a decent amount of money until retirement or fund their lifestyle with the min. amount of work. They usually get their start with a little luck and perseverance

The second type is the traditional Portfolio Manager. Although an individual PM's philosophy in investing differs, they are usually well educated in macro and micro environments. Passion for optimization is their game. Most likely, these individuals have an economic and/or finance background. They start their careers as either an economist/investment analyst/researcher and feed their ideas to a PM. Eventually (if they are good), the economist/investment analyst/researcher ideas become the "go to" person in the office and they land the job as a PM (of course they work their way up as sr. analyst/sr. researcher/jr.PM).

Back to you question of how do individuals get their start as PMs. The first part is passion for investments. Read and keep your mind open. Second part, is hard work. Start anywhere you can gain experience in a particular finance field (ie. fix income, securitization, ibanking, research, etc..). Third, move laterally until you're in a investment firm. Fourth, work hard and become the "go to" person in your office. Fifth, be a bit lucky and opportunistic (sometime you have to make your own luck). Sixth, work harder than anyone else.

Hope this helps.
 
You know Frank, the money PMs at hedge funds get makes bankers look downright poor. Lloyd Blankenfien's $50MM last year would barely have cracked the Trader Monthly 100.
 
frank since the whole banking thing seems to not be working out... why not give HF PM a whirl?
 
i'm not diong this just for the money. i mean, i do love money and i do hope to make some of it. but what i believe is, if you love your job and you do a good job at it, you'll make money. whether its 1 million or 3 million, i'm not sure that is the biggest factor.

i just want to do something that excites me, and when it comes to money, only a certain amount is really needed anyways.
 
FrankArabia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i'm not diong this just for the money. i mean, i
> do love money and i do hope to make some of it.
> but what i believe is, if you love your job and
> you do a good job at it, you'll make money.
> whether its 1 million or 3 million, i'm not sure
> that is the biggest factor.
>
> i just want to do something that excites me, and
> when it comes to money, only a certain amount is
> really needed anyways.


I so agree. To many people are only in the game for the title and the money. No wonder so many people fail at reaching the coveted PM goal. Same goes for IB, Research, HF, and PE. I completely understand why firms scrutinize candidates so hard beyond just technical skills.
 
Gouman Wrote:
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> I so agree. To many people are only in the game
> for the title and the money. No wonder so many
> people fail at reaching the coveted PM goal. Same
> goes for IB, Research, HF, and PE. I completely
> understand why firms scrutinize candidates so hard
> beyond just technical skills.

i know a lot of very successful people in finance who only care about money. it doesn't make them bad people. that's just where their priorities lie. you obviously can't say this in an interview, but money is just fine as a primary motivating force to get into these industries.
 
for me personally, if i'm waking up in the morning and going to work just thinking, "i'm spending this 1 life i have doing something i do like to get something i don't need", then i guess that is a waste of life in my opinion.

lets get something straight though. money is a measure of success in the financial field, and to be successful is a feeling we all want. but do i really want a big huge mansion and a ferrari? no. i rather have the feeling of waking up in the morning and looking back on my life knowing that I did my best. that is something money will not buy.

its similar to the whole CFA thing. I don't really care what i scored now. I know I did my best and i can live with whatever the results happen to be.
 
Hey Frank. I just finished reading "Den of Thieves" by James Stewart this morning before coming into work. It took me only four days to read. If you haven't read it, it's an amazing story of good people who got caught up in doing bad things... for the money.
 
driving into the office this morning i read a one word condemnation spray painted on the overpass:

$lave$
 
stylemog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> i know a lot of very successful people in finance
> who only care about money. it doesn't make them
> bad people. that's just where their priorities
> lie. you obviously can't say this in an interview,
> but money is just fine as a primary motivating
> force to get into these industries.


Good for them. I would rather be doing something I love and making a modest living than making a killing and never feeling deep internal satisfaction. I would also hire these types of people so when the industry dynamics change a little my people don't just jump ship.
 
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