Senior year checklist....

RAwannabeCFA

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Here is the good news...What I have found out from almost 10 years in this industry is this: People coming out of Undegrad don't know sh!t! Whether they go to Harvard or FSU they all come out wide eyed and without a freaking clue. Your goal is to get a job so that in 2 years you rectify that. Most can't model and I've yet to find one who can write worth a damn. The vast majority don't know crap about the capital markets. I go speak at the UT investment club from time to time and they do this weekly market update and I swear it is like listen to my 7 year old niece give a market report...But then I remember I had no clue either when I first started.

Here is the secret that nobody tells you and you kind of have to figure out on your own and the successful people do. Attach yourself at the hip to someone smart...really smart and hopefully well concected. If you've read Liar's Poker he talks about how he became friend with 2 really smart sales guys and that is how he learned the business. I hadn't read this until after I had already done this but after I did I thought this guy is smart. The other thing to do is become an expert at whatever job you get. Also, be well read it is tough to sit at home and read when all your friends are going out but pick 2-3 nights a week where you just read...Finance books, industry trades, Fortune, Barrons, The Economist, ect. Make sure you try to puruse the Journal and if feasible FT every day just so you are aware of the major stories and the major players. I would also throw in Trader's monthly and Dealmaker which are mostly fluff but learn the name of the major player.

Also, go to the CFA society meetings in your area. Get there early and try to talk to the guest speaker if possible. Find out what he does, get his card, ask if you can e-mail him if you have questions. Sit at a different table everytime and meet everyone in the society. Volunteer if they need it and you can. When you talk to people try to have an opinion.

People are always trying to find good people and in a lot of cases people don't care where you went to school or what your grades were if you come across as well spoken and well read. I didn't go to great schools or get great grades but people always tell me they think I'm one of the smartest people they've met (they are OFTEN wrong) but perception is everything.

Also, when you go to these things try to dress the part...it is cliche but at many CFA societies people come in dressed like crap especially young guys and for whatever reason pension fund guys. Details are also important if you have a flip phone get rid of it and get some kind of next gen phone like a Blackbeery or Cingular 8125 they just look more professional and for god sake wear a watch.

These aren't huge things for guys with great grades who went to top schools but they can help the perception people have of you and that is more important for people without the perfect education.

numi is right about focusing on smaller shops. They typically will take risks because they can't afford the perfect candidate and sometimes at firms like mine we want someone with a little different background. We feel people who got that 4.0 usually are good at telling teachers what they want to hear and not at challenging popular belief.

After a couple of years you can hopefully write and model which make you much more marketable and you should have your choice of several jobs.
 
excellent observation...as a senior undergrad with one semester to go, I feel the same way and suffer from the same inferiority complex. When I got into my school years ago it was ranked 2 in undergrad finance, but after I've taken the palsy 5 (and took an extra one) finance classes necessary for the degree, did internships where I did jack, I still feel pretty stupid along with the rest of my classmates...

I've been trying to figure it out on my own by taking deal maven, WSP, certs, and reading WSJ , investment blogs, and the economist.


"Finance books, industry trades, Fortune, Barrons, The Economist, ect."

What others do you recommend that don't contain a lot of fluff? Like additional investment books and publications? I'm getting the Institutional investor.
 
Theo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gouman- I can't say I am willing to go for the
> masters right now, as money is running thin and I
> have a lot of pressure to land a job after this
> year. And eventually I may want to go the MBA
> route anyways. Congrats on your success in the
> internships though and I wish you continued luck
> in your future. I agree with you and the many
> others on the networking/ interviews being key.
>
> Numi- Thank you very much, but I have too much
> respect to do that to you, even if I had a 3.8+.
> Don't get me wrong, it would be much appreciated
> though.
>
> The boutique route definitely sounds more feasible
> right now, Blue and Numi. I wish I had a better
> idea of what area I would best fit in or enjoy,
> but oh well- That is what internships are for. I
> will have to revisit my vault guide, but in a
> Boutique is it the same kind of structure as a BB
> in terms of advancement? (Analyst for 2 years,
> business school, etc)?

No worries Theo...I'm like any other guy around here trying to earn a living. Would be happy to help you out with your search if you have questions about resume critique, interview prep, etc.

RAwannabeCFA has given you some very insightful information so I don't have too much to add there. In addition, the reason you need to consider boutique firms is because the doors at a BB are more likely to be closed to you (obviously nothing is "impossible," but "possible" certainly is a relative term when you consider how strict and regimented our hiring processes are)...but again, once you get your foot in the industry and have some relevant work experience to write home about, you will become a lot more marketable and it is a good way to make up ground if you didn't have the best grades.

Bottom line is...network, know your stuff, and show that you have the curiosity and passion for the job whenever you get in front of people who could potentially hook you up with a job. In addition to what RAwannabeCFA already mentioned, I'll also add that so many people come out of undergrad, get their first job in finance and feel great about it, but also think that they run the world and that they deserve everything. They should definitely feel great about breaking into the industry, but also learn the importance of being humble as early as you can. Young guys who think like they own the show get chewed up and spat out faster than you know. Now, I'm not as old as most of you think, but nothing pisses people off more than guys who try to talk themselves up but have no idea what the heck they're doing. (you see this on AF too...so these guys are everywhere)

Once you get to your future job, you should be focused on working hard, doing all you can, keeping a good attitude, and please...just know your role. I'm just putting this out there for good general advice for others -- fortunately, you seem to have a good attitude and don't appear to have this problem, which is already much better than a lot of Wall Street hopefuls have it.

Best of luck!
 
Thanks for taking the time to write that post, RA. Excellent stuff and I learned a lot in it.

I have started w/ the readings recently. In the AM I have been browsing news- mostly on WSJ.com. I will bookmark the other resources you acknowledge. At night I am studying for L1. Being more well read is what I have definitely been working on this summer and for now on overall

Numi- Will definitely keep that in mind when I am fixing up my resume and such. Thank you once again for the tidbits of advice and good wishes!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at Wednesday, July 18, 2007 at 10:16PM by Theo.
 
great thread, i am learning lots here,

even though i havent posted, i am in much the same situation as you theo, except that i wrote the LI and have already graduated. My gpa is 3.5 major, and 3.4 overall.

I am starting my job search right now and have also applied to an MBA, however I dont want to get my hopes up with the mba bc I am on the waiting list for entry and not officialy in yet. so i would rather take out the insurance and network to find a job as well



thanx to all the contributors

PS numi what do you do ?
 
Jesus, why on earth are II and Alpha so expensive??? 24 issues for 850 bucks.... I read them for free at the uni library...
 
> What others do you recommend that don't contain a
> lot of fluff? Like additional investment books
> and publications? I'm getting the Institutional
> investor.

My big 4 are Barrons, Fortuen, Forbes, and The Economist. I try to review each issue of each simply so I stay abreast on top of the important names in the industry. I'm also kind of a freak about stuff like this and I even make flash cards about people or companies I want to remember. But I'm a bit extreme about this stuff...Simply reading it is probaby good enough.

Also there is a fairly comprehensive list of books on this site (I think on the first page even). If not I can post a list of books if you can't find it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at Thursday, July 19, 2007 at 12:24AM by RAwannabeCFA.
 
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