Wharton resume thoughts

[wegowayback]

posted this in the resume request thread but think it'll get lost in the shuffle

a couple things i noticed:

- there were a lot of private equity folks, but very few hedge fund people

- lot of intl students

- for about 50% of the jobs listed, i couldnt figure out what the person had been doing. too much typical resume drivel

- a lot of students had left good jobs to work at crummy dot-com companies between 98-00

- way too much space dedicated to meaningless undergrad awards and class participation stuff. after you reach a certain age, all that stuff is meaningless (unless it was truly impressive, like being a rhodes scholar, or valedictorian). schools like harvard practically have more awards than students. this stuff is important for people 1-4 years out of college, but real job experience should slowly replace the undergrad stuff (co-editor of school newspaper, joe blow award for something-or-other, see-through volunteer work just so i could put it on resume, etc) over time

- similarly, i think putting your gmat score on your resume is tacky. you go to wharton - i could probably figure out you had a good gmat on my own without you telling me

- about 25% of the resumes were legitimately impressive; most were good without blowing me away (at least for the rep wharton has); some were real head-scratchers

anyone find anything else noteworthy?

 

[BILLY]

they are all good at bs. You have to be able to write sth truly GRAND out of nothing. In an internship, you could be the one buying drinks for everyone and the most junior guy being kicked around, but you have to say you were involved in the billion dollar investment deal.....blah..... and what a significant contribution you made.....how brilliant and remarkable you are, even if you may be far from it.

If you would meet them, or work with them or know them in person.... probably would not impressed by many of them. They are still looking to become employees and could be fired any second.

Ask them to start a business, no matter how small, wouldn't expect many can keep it going, not to say expand it. A street guy without a degree might do a better job. You do not need to go to business school to learn business. Business schools are a business and an industry themselves, they have to make money and break even. But they do not seem to be sustaining the image of their MBA industry anymore, and seem to be experiencing considerable difficulty practising successfully what they preach.

 

[mwr]

I agree with most of what you have said. Most of the resumes were solid but not unachievable. A few, though, were phenomenal, like the guy who was on the Olympic fencing team. No wonder he got in. There were also some impressive finance resumes as well, though most in this area seemed average or slightly fluffy.

I've talked to several people I work with who have top MBAs about getting into a top MBA program and what they told me was consistent with what the resumes showed. Approximately 50% of the class is made of up of students from top 15-20 U.S. schools, a good chunk of the class is made of international students, and the remainder is made of state schoolers. In other words, they want some diversity, not 300 students from Yale/Harvard/Stanford. Further, applicants are not competing with each other on an absolute basis, but rather relative to others who fit similar profiles. If you're a typical U.S. student, you're not really competing with the guy they let in from Africa, because they're probably going to let in a handful of people from Africa anyway (assuming there are reasonable candidates to admit). If they were admitting people based on GPA/GMAT/WE alone, there would have been far more candidates from China, Indian and probably some European countries, though in actuality these candidates were well represented but not dominat by any means.

In other words, it appears to me, based on others I've talked to, reading I've done, and now having looked at the actual resumes, that you 'only' have to be the best candidate or one of a handful of best candidates from you geographical region, though you are at a serious advantage if you have gone to a top U.S. undergraduate program. There were three students admitted from the same respectable state school undergrad I went to, all of whom had strong resumes. Would they have been able to beat out the competition if they were judged on an absolute basis? Maybe, maybe not. But it was clear that they were probably the best applicants during that year from Seattle. Again, this is consistent with others I have talked to, including my boss who said "I know the only way I got in [to Harvard] was because of the part of the country I came from. I knew I had to be the best or one of the three best candidates from UW, and apparently I was." So there you go.

Just my two cents, having not gone through the process.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at Tuesday, September 5, 2006 at 01:43AM by mwr.

 

[myzegna]

what are the advantages of going to business school if you are doing well in your career? i would like to apply eventually but the sheer cost of it and 2 years out of the workforce is a huge negative.

 

[Bambi]

this might not be general but I have made the following observation among my friends and collegues here in Europe

most of the observed sample has already a very strong educational background, no MBAs but highly recognised university and Bschool degrees granting five years (we all have the equivalent of master's degrees) of secondary studies
those who had no accident in their career (unemployment for too long) and did not want to change careers (leave finance for "the industry") did not opt for an MBA but just smoothed up the carreer ladder maybe adding the CFA or other relevant diploma
those who were trapped within unemployment over the 2001-2002 period went for high caliber MBA's ie Wharton or LBS

as I said this is just my observation on a restricted sample of London/Paris/Frankfurt based ppl

 

[DeadCat]

Interesting. I broadly agree from a London perspective.

My plan is only to do an MBA if the markets really cr*p-out. Otherwise the opportunity cost is just too high.

 

[BILLY]

the cost of doing an MBA is too high, unless the person is from a rich family and everything is paid for. Assume one has to save for the $100K, how many years of working and savings? then 2 years out of work, lost salary could easily double the cost... if not, he will have to spend at least a couple of years after the MBA to pay off his loans. So from beginning to the end of an MBA when all MBA debts are paid off, could take 5-7 years or more.

By the time his MBA debts are paid off... it could be time to fall back to mediocrity after the early years of flying start after the MBA. And the MBA could be on the similar level as the guy next to him without an MBA but has focused all his years on his career and gaining professional qualifications.

Also by the time his MBA debts are paid off, it could be time to start paying his home mortgage... so whole life spent on repaying debts...

But if the guy has everything paid for, has got good enough grades, and is accepted, then go in for a holiday.

 

[mwr]

Billy,

It seems as though you are not taking into account that having a top MBA allows you get into top jobs, which typically pay hefty salaries/bonuses and usually have great potential for advancement. For example, a graduate from a top 3-5 MBA could reasonably expect to make 200K+ upon graduation, which makes the repayment of student loans much easier. My boss has said that several of his peers from HBS were able to land jobs in the 300-400K a year range working for companies like McKinsey and Co. (and this was in 1992 so I imagine it has gone up since then). These were typically international students who had relevant experience prior to entering the MBA program and often had valuable language skills, though I am sure there were other graduates who were able to land stellar positions and make big bucks. So it depends on the person.

I'm not saying that going to a top MBA program is the only way, but the argument that the cost is too high varies from person to person is generally a poorly constructed blanket argument against top MBA programs. Likewise, if you have a good idea for a business, then start one. Most people don't, and anyone with some sense realizes that starting yet another restaurant/bar/small tech company is probably not the ticket to fame and fortune.