What percentage of Americans could legitmately pass all three exams if they wanted to?

[Vandelay Industries]

Seems that there is a constant stream of comments of “CFA really isnt that hard. it just takes time”, or “Anyone can earn a CFA if they are willing to put in the time”

Do you agree with these? Let’s say just for fun that if someone passes all three exams, they are awarded the exorbitant sum of $10,000,000. Let’s also eliminate the entrance requrement of having to have a college degree.
Under these circumstances, what percent of US adults do you see actually being able to have the discipline and mental ability to get all three levels done?
I think the world is full of excuse-makers that dont like the discipline or ability to make it happen. Since, 33% of adults have a bachelor degree, I only think maybe 20% of adults could pass all three exames. MAYBE that many. Perhaps even less.

 

[former trader]

I’m one of those that claim that the exams aren’t that hard if you put in more than the required hours. I should add to that remark that I am assuming the individual has at least average intelligence and is college educated with a business degree or harder (engineering, physics, mathematics, biological sciences, etc).

 

[Marathon_runner]

I think I read somewhere that less than 30% of those that start the program actually complete the program.

 

[kartelite]

With the stipulations someone mentioned above:
College educated, at least average intelligence with a business/hard science degree and TEN MILLION DOLLARS? People slave away for decades to earn well less than that. The tests aren’t that hard compared to a lot of stuff out there - I would guess for TEN MILLION DOLLARS you could get well over 70% to pass, probably more like 90%.
Without those stipulations:
I would still imagine 50% could pass. People with extreme self control issues are able to starve themselves and exercise fanatically to lose weight on The Biggest Loser for what, a couple hundred grand? Physical discipline is generally tougher than mental discipline (higher level of instant gratification), and someone of average intelligence could certainly pass the exams if they completely devoted themselves to the material.

 

[geo]

What really pisses me off is those people that say its easy if you put in the hours. I agree the material isn’t difficult, but putting in the hours is. Golf isn’t hard if you put in the hours, I’d be a tour pro if I put in 2,000 hours a year on the course and range. But I’m not a tour pro, now am I? If I put in 2,000 hours a year as a kid, maybe I’d be an NHL player.
The battle of three years of painful studying is a huge part of the accomplishment. Its a really hard program to finish, one of the hardest, because of the structure and commitment required. That’s why when I see a CFA charteholder, I know they’ve got some grit to see something through, more valuae than any financial knowledge that most of us forgot six months from the exam.
And you don’t have someone pushing you and holding your hand along the way either. Its independent effort.
I believe 1 in 5 finish, and that’s from a pretty elite group already compared to the average population. Maybe 5% could finish. Maybe. Most people are lazy and undedicated and wouldn’t have a chance at finishing.

 

[Vandelay Industries]

geo wrote:What really pisses me off is those people that say its easy if you put in the hours. I agree the material isn’t difficult, but putting in the hours is. Golf isn’t hard if you put in the hours, I’d be a tour pro if I put in 2,000 hours a year on the course and range. But I’m not a tour pro, now am I? If I put in 2,000 hours a year as a kid, maybe I’d be an NHL player. The battle of three years of painful studying is a huge part of the accomplishment. Its a really hard program to finish, one of the hardest, because of the structure and commitment required. That’s why when I see a CFA charteholder, I know they’ve got some grit to see something through, more valuae than any financial knowledge that most of us forgot six months from the exam. And you don’t have someone pushing you and holding your hand along the way either. Its independent effort. I believe 1 in 5 finish, and that’s from a pretty elite group already compared to the average population. Maybe 5% could finish. Maybe. Most people are lazy and undedicated and wouldn’t have a chance at finishing.

Very true. Great point. Reminds me of the current study going on in Europe where the unathletic kid receives training and practices for 10,000 hours over 10 years to see if anyone can truly become a professional soccer player with enough effort, practice, and time.

 

[Vandelay Industries]

kartelite wrote:
With the stipulations someone mentioned above:
College educated, at least average intelligence with a business/hard science degree and TEN MILLION DOLLARS? People slave away for decades to earn well less than that. The tests aren’t that hard compared to a lot of stuff out there - I would guess for TEN MILLION DOLLARS you could get well over 70% to pass, probably more like 90%.
Without those stipulations:
I would still imagine 50% could pass. People with extreme self control issues are able to starve themselves and exercise fanatically to lose weight on The Biggest Loser for what, a couple hundred grand? Physical discipline is generally tougher than mental discipline (higher level of instant gratification), and someone of average intelligence could certainly pass the exams if they completely devoted themselves to the material.

I dont think so. Have you ever been to a Walmart? No way those people are passing. I dont care how much time they put in.

 

[Flamboyant]

^ Agree with Geo
It’s strange how many Candidates forget the very basics of CFA process . MPS is set in a way that prevents many from passing. 40% of L1 pass, of those only 40% pass L2, who in turn only half of them pass L3. This is including retakers. That is, only 8% of who start the program ends obtaining the Charter. I presume native English speakers have higher chances; as well as Candidates accustomed to Wall Street. Hence, I believe 15% of Americans candidates would end up obtaining the Charter. Factoring the USD 10M (exclusive award to Americans), and assuming that US candidates are less than 8% of the total number of Candidates, it’s possible that 80%-90% of American would pass all 3 levels. However, with the 10M incentive, loads of Asians would seek the US nationality, increasing the percentage of American candidates to above 8% of the total; hence reducing the percentage of passes toward the global average.

 

[former trader]

geo wrote:What really pisses me off is those people that say its easy if you put in the hours. I agree the material isn’t difficult, but putting in the hours is. Golf isn’t hard if you put in the hours, I’d be a tour pro if I put in 2,000 hours a year on the course and range. But I’m not a tour pro, now am I? If I put in 2,000 hours a year as a kid, maybe I’d be an NHL player. .

Not the same thing as there is a limited amount of people in the world that turn pro. To become an athlete, you don’t only need to put in the time but also have the God given talent. Having a solid program in your neck of the woods with competent coaches doesn’t hurt either.
The truth of the matter is the CFA program is only a inch deep. Also, 100% of L1, 100% of L2 and 50% of L3 consists of 3 option multiple choice questions.
I’m not saying it’s easy. But, let’s not exaggerate the difficulty either. The way some people talk about the exams, it’s as if they’re writing a physics, pharmacology or med exam. Now these exams you can put in the time and still fail just as you can put in the time on an ice rink and still not make the NHL.
The CFA exams require discipline, commitment and a rigorous work ethic, not great intelligence. You can control the former, not so much the latter.

 

[Vandelay Industries]

former trader wrote:

geo wrote:What really pisses me off is those people that say its easy if you put in the hours. I agree the material isn’t difficult, but putting in the hours is. Golf isn’t hard if you put in the hours, I’d be a tour pro if I put in 2,000 hours a year on the course and range. But I’m not a tour pro, now am I? If I put in 2,000 hours a year as a kid, maybe I’d be an NHL player. .

Not the same thing as there is a limited amount of people in the world that turn pro. To become an athlete, you don’t only need to put in the time but also have the God given talent. Having a solid program in your neck of the woods with competent coaches doesn’t hurt either.
The truth of the matter is the CFA program is only a inch deep. Also, 100% of L1, 100% of L2 and 50% of L3 consists of 3 option multiple choice questions.
I’m not saying it’s easy. But, let’s not exaggerate the difficulty either. The way some people talk about the exams, it’s as if they’re writing a physics, pharmacology or med exam. Now these exams you can put in the time and still fail just as you can put in the time on an ice rink and still not make the NHL.
The CFA exams require discipline, commitment and a rigorous work ethic, not great intelligence. You can control the former, not so much the latter.

Just to play devils advocate, isnt there also a limit to how many people can pass the exams each year? Isnt that the concept of the adjustable MPS? To ensure that too many people dont pass?

 

[Alexander James]

I believe it is rubbish to say, that:
(A) CFA Exams are easy if you put in a lot of hours, and
(B) majority of bachelor educated people could pass the exams, and
(C) average intelligence were required.
First of all, in my experience, only the distinctly above average intelligent people pass all 3 levels in a timely manner.
I would go on to say that with if you want to pass within 3-4 years all levels, then you will need an IQ between 120-130: you will stil require a lot of effort. 130 and above: you will require the minimum amount of study hours, unless your memory capability sucks big time.
pls dont come with “IQ is rubbish”. you know what I mean. L2 and L3 test how quick your brain is. this cannot be trained substantially.
please people - do first the entire program, become charterholder and then discuss which walmart employee would be able to pass CFA and which one would not..

 

[Finkid]

Alexander James wrote:
I would go on to say that with if you want to pass within 3-4 years all levels, then you will need an IQ between 120-130: you will stil require a lot of effort.

You would need 3 years even with an IQ of 130? lol
I don’t know if an average American, Walmart employee or some other random guy would be able to pass these exams but what I have experienced that CFA exams are not that dependent on IQ. Imo, anybody can pass these exams given enough time (and assuming they have at least an average IQ). And obviously, the higher the IQ, the better it is.

 

[former trader]

Vandelay Industries wrote:

former trader wrote:

geo wrote:What really pisses me off is those people that say its easy if you put in the hours. I agree the material isn’t difficult, but putting in the hours is. Golf isn’t hard if you put in the hours, I’d be a tour pro if I put in 2,000 hours a year on the course and range. But I’m not a tour pro, now am I? If I put in 2,000 hours a year as a kid, maybe I’d be an NHL player. .

Not the same thing as there is a limited amount of people in the world that turn pro. To become an athlete, you don’t only need to put in the time but also have the God given talent. Having a solid program in your neck of the woods with competent coaches doesn’t hurt either.
The truth of the matter is the CFA program is only a inch deep. Also, 100% of L1, 100% of L2 and 50% of L3 consists of 3 option multiple choice questions.
I’m not saying it’s easy. But, let’s not exaggerate the difficulty either. The way some people talk about the exams, it’s as if they’re writing a physics, pharmacology or med exam. Now these exams you can put in the time and still fail just as you can put in the time on an ice rink and still not make the NHL.
The CFA exams require discipline, commitment and a rigorous work ethic, not great intelligence. You can control the former, not so much the latter.

Just to play devils advocate, isnt there also a limit to how many people can pass the exams each year? Isnt that the concept of the adjustable MPS? To ensure that too many people dont pass?

If you score at least 70% on the exam, you are guaranteed to pass.
There are 600 NHL players in the world. On a good year, there might be 30 spots opening up for rookies. You have to be among the 0.001%.

 

[itera]

the material isn’t rocket science and anyone with a high school diploma can probably learn the topics.
What screws up most of the avg non-tax paying 50% american population is that it’s a grueling 6 hour exam closed-book. You need determination and stamina to finish it, a lot of people just can’t do that, or don’t care enough to put in the effort.

 

[hpracing007]

A good number probably don’t have enough self control to save up for the exam fees much less sit and study.
A suprising number of Americans can’t even balance a simple check book, despite having google at their fingertips if they really needed it. I don’t think they’ll have the patience to learn CFA material. They’d get distracted and watch reruns of the Kardashians or go tweet about how hard they are working and how unfair the CFA is.

 

[geo]

former trader wrote:

geo wrote:What really pisses me off is those people that say its easy if you put in the hours. I agree the material isn’t difficult, but putting in the hours is. Golf isn’t hard if you put in the hours, I’d be a tour pro if I put in 2,000 hours a year on the course and range. But I’m not a tour pro, now am I? If I put in 2,000 hours a year as a kid, maybe I’d be an NHL player. .

I’m not saying it’s easy. But, let’s not exaggerate the difficulty either. The way some people talk about the exams, it’s as if they’re writing a physics, pharmacology or med exam. Now these exams you can put in the time and still fail just as you can put in the time on an ice rink and still not make the NHL.

I completely agree that the CFA material isn’t as deep as many other programs, but I still think you greatly overestimate the ability of the majority of the population. Stroll into a Taco Bell in the US and I can guarantee that guy making your taco isn’t going to pass. That’s your median North American. You can’t just base it on your peer group, which is in the the very elite 1-2% of the population.
I think many in finance greatly underestimate how elite their peer group is. It’s not NHL elite, fair, but it is less than 1% of the population.

 

[Flamboyant]

I’ve got a sudden flash back to Verizon Math
$0.002 =0.002 ¢
We’ve got a problem in the original hypothesis .

 

[Finkid]

former trader wrote:
I’m not saying it’s easy. But, let’s not exaggerate the difficulty either. The way some people talk about the exams, it’s as if they’re writing a physics, pharmacology or med exam.

Imo, Lawyers, Judges, Doctors, Scientists, Engineers, Accountants, Professors etc. can all pass CFA exams if they want to— not all of them but most of them.
My elder brother who is a doctor used to tell me that medical studies is not rocket science hard but it’s grueling beyond belief. It’s like the CFA except that you have to study for 5-10 years continuously. Now Physics on the other hand is exactly rocket science hard.

 

[Marathon_runner]

I’ve passed the Mensa qualifying exam, I studied a lot of hours for Level III, English is my native tongue, I have an MBA in Finance… and I still only eked out a pass (66.5% 40/60/80 score from 300hours.com).
I could say the same for the other levels as well. To say that CFA exams aren’t hard and that it’s just a matter of putting in the hours isn’t my true in my opinion. CFA exams very difficult exams – even for intelligent people that put in significant study time.

 

[former trader]

geo wrote:

former trader wrote:

geo wrote:What really pisses me off is those people that say its easy if you put in the hours. I agree the material isn’t difficult, but putting in the hours is. Golf isn’t hard if you put in the hours, I’d be a tour pro if I put in 2,000 hours a year on the course and range. But I’m not a tour pro, now am I? If I put in 2,000 hours a year as a kid, maybe I’d be an NHL player. .

I’m not saying it’s easy. But, let’s not exaggerate the difficulty either. The way some people talk about the exams, it’s as if they’re writing a physics, pharmacology or med exam. Now these exams you can put in the time and still fail just as you can put in the time on an ice rink and still not make the NHL.

I completely agree that the CFA material isn’t as deep as many other programs, but I still think you greatly overestimate the ability of the majority of the population. Stroll into a Taco Bell in the US and I can guarantee that guy making your taco isn’t going to pass. That’s your median North American. You can’t just base it on your peer group, which is in the the very elite 1-2% of the population. I think many in finance greatly underestimate how elite their peer group is. It’s not NHL elite, fair, but it is less than 1% of the population.

You must be confusing me with the OP. I never stated the guy making my taco would pass. If you have the 3 below, I can’t see how you can’t pass:
1) Having at least average intelligence
2) Having a business or hard science degree
3) Putting in more than the required hours on a consistent basis
Most of us taking the exams have the first 2. It comes down to commitment and discipline after that.