Why are u pursuing the CFA?

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for $...promotion...career change or just because everyone else is?
 
for me it is basically a job requirement. but regardless of that, it comes down to two things: 1. the knowledge. 2. the letters. for me, like i said it is a job requirement, but i think that is mainly for the credentials (aka the letters), and THEN the knowledge, not the other way around.
 
So I can stand behind dallas470 while he slings stuff at todd gak and imp - and yell "YEAH" after every statement.

What, is there another reason?
 
When I think about this question, I am reminded of George Santayana's famous statement that "fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim."

I entered the CFA program in 2004 because I was looking for a way to get into the finance profession without going back to school. I am a corporate/M&A attorney and I have found that I enjoy the financial aspects of business transactions a lot more than I enjoy the legal aspects. When I looked for jobs, however, I was unable to find anything that would not require me to take a HUGE pay cut (i.e., I would not be able to make more than about 25-33% of what I make now). Consequently, I have decided to remain a lawyer, at least for the time being. Nevertheless, I have continued in the CFA program, passing the LI test in June 2004 and the LII test in June 2005. I am also planning to take LIII on June 3, 2006. If anything, my level of studying has intensified as time has gone on.

This morning I thanked my wife for being so understanding of the amount of time that I have devoted to the CFA program notwithstanding the absence of any obvious career benefits. Her response was that, if nothing else, we've confirmed where my interests lie.

FRS
 
when a lawyer in M&A can't get a spot in I banking and studies for the CFA, i have to wonder, i have to wonder.

your entire constituency couldn't help you get a job?
 
JeffJ21,

I don't want a job in I banking. The I bankers with whom I have worked generally aren't happy people, and I don't want to be a salesman in any event. I want to be a buy-side analyst/portfolio manager. I've spoken to some major financial institutions where I live (St. Louis) and they are willing to hire me as an analyst, but I would come in at an entry (or near entry) level. For someone who is in his upper 30s and a partner at a large law firm, that is a hard pill to swallow. I haven't definitively ruled it out, but I haven't been willing to pull the trigger either.

I have considered trying to get a job at a PE fund with the thought that the combination of my legal M&A experience and finance and accounting knowledge would make me very marketable. I haven't pursued that route yet -- among other things, it would probably require moving to a money center city -- but may do so after I take the LIII test.

The problem with using my constituency is that I have not wanted to openly declare that I am looking for another job. I have confided in a few people -- among others, some I bankers with whom I have worked and a few people in the local finance community -- but I have not wanted to publicly declare that I am considering a career change for fear that it would get back to my firm.

Right now, my focus is on getting past LIII. After that, I am going to give some hard thought as to where I want to be in 5-10 years. I may decide that it is worth it to take the short term pay cut in an effort to be in a much better situation 5-10 years from now.

FRS
 
CFA will not get you there on its own. That is a classic misconception. AM is infmamous for being a pretty closed profession to career changers, and chaning from law to financial analysis is as BIG as it gets. If you want in, you are going to have to start at the bottom. After all who would want a lawyer handling their money? You'll have to prove you have sound judgement and market sense before anyone will put you in a PM position. Pass L3 and work as a junior research analyst. If you are good, you will be promoted quickly.
 
Gecco,

Thanks for your input. My experience has been exactly what you describe. To make the transition, I will need to bite the bullet and take a junior position. So far, I haven't been willing to do that.

I do want to take issue with one statement you made, however. I don't think the transition from transactional law to financial analysis is as big as you suggest. My current job involves structuring, negotiating and documenting business acquisitions and divestitures. Although this is from a legal perspective, it is actually more similar to investment banking than it is to litigation. (That's one of the reasons why nearly everyone giving me advice on my desired career change suggests that I consider I banking.) Knowledge of finance and accounting is very helpful to an M&A attorney. Moreover, many of the skills that make for a good transactional lawyer -- among other things, logical thinking and attention to detail -- are some of the same skills that make for a good financial analyst. I think that's part of the reason why I've had success in the CFA program so far. Also, I believe that most of the personality tests (Myers-Briggs, etc.) suggest that people with similar personality traits enter the two fields.

One big difference, of course, is that lawyers rarely have to use much math, but for those of us who are naturally mathematically inclined that is not much of an adjustment.

Sorry for hijacking this thread -- I didn't mean to do that. I know that "seeking career advice" threads get really old.

FRS
 
I'm doing it for the learning. I have a CFP(r), and want to expand my knowledge base. It's not a job requirement, but an enhancement. I doubt I'll go into I banking, and I'm a bit long in the tooth to be seriously considered for an analyst position.
 
I'm doing it for the learning. I have a CFP(r), and want to expand my knowledge base. It's not a job requirement, but an enhancement. I doubt I'll go into I banking, and I'm a bit long in the tooth to be seriously considered for an analyst position.
 
FRS, I have no doubt you're a lawyer by the size of your posts. For me, I wanted to do it to learn more about finance. My undergrad didn't provide me enough material. Of course, I expected to get a good job out of the deal, but that has yet to be determined. IF things work out in the next few months, I'll actually start accruing work experience and will not have to write another exam in the short term.
 
FRS,'

I was an investment banker for quite a while before I realized it was the analysis and the strategic thought that interested me, and not the transaction processing that was such huge part of the job. With IM the analysis and judgement is everything. And, yes, the transition from IB was very difficult (even with a top BA, MBA, +CFA)

I was at an interview once and I was trying to convince a partner at a late stage VC firm that I had all this transaction experience, and could add value right away. His repsponse took me by surrpise.

"Investment Bankers evaluate deals on whether they could get done, versus whether they should get done" - how true, he got me.

Be careful about assuming that because you have transactional experience with M&A deals that you have experience in analyzing andf evaluating INVESTMENTS.

Switch the tables for second - what if a Portfolio Manager (CFA, MBA with 5+ years of great AM experience) decided to go law school and called you up asking for a junior partner position, what would you say? You would say there is an opening in our next associate class...........
 
Gecco,

You're right of course. I understand that my experience doesn't qualify me for a PM position. My only point was that some of the intellectual and personality traits that make for a successful transactional lawyer also make for a successful career in AM. Nevertheless, as you point out, the knowledge base is completely different, and there is a lot of on the job learning that would be required.

My frustration -- which I realize is showing more than it should be -- is that I discovered what I want to be when I grow up a little later than most people.

FRS



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at Monday, May 22, 2006 at 01:57PM by FRS.
 
FRS-

As several people have mentioned, you'll probably have to take a pretty big salary/title reduction in order to get a job on the buyside since there is definitely a learning curve. I would guess that your experience would be invaluable in investment banking and VC/PE - and you probably wouldn't have as big a pay cut (if any) if you moved into one of these areas since you already have probably 7-10+ years experience (which I'm guessing is the case since you mentioned that you are a partner) structuring complex business transactions from a legal perspective. With the amount of experience to the M&A process and knowledge of the legal aspects surrounding it, you'd actually probably be a very good candidate for VC/PE - which would give you the "buy side" aspect that you are looking for while still being able to utilize your legal skills and knowledge in transactional law and M&A. If you look at the bios of people at the MD/partner level at PE/VC firms, you'll notice that quite a few have a legal background.
 
Find a company you like and try to get in as an attorney....then try to make a lateral move within that company.

I am in the same boat as you. I'm a 36 year old CPA with a nice salary. Transitioning into equity research or asset management will likely mean taking an entry level position for much less pay.

I recently interviewed for a financial analyst position at an insurance company. This position has very little to do with anything I am learning in the CFA program. However, when I mentioned the CFA program to the VP of finance he got all jazzed up and suggested they would be adding to their asset managament team in the next year. He thought I would be ideal for that.

Step one is to spend a year or so as the financial analyst....then seek out the transfer to asset management. This is probably my best course since the salary for the financial analyst position is similar to my current salary - so I won't have to take a pay cut.

I interview well....really well. I find that when they like you - they offer you the moon. I say get in, prove yourself as a capable attorney and see what blossoms....you may be pleasantly surprised at the opprtunities that come your way.
 
Thanks, Darkstar and Testami. I appreciate your good advice. Right now I'm just hoping to get by LIII on June 3. I scored 20/30 on the first CFAI online practice exam, which frankly was lower than I was expecting. I have a fun holiday weekend of total CFA immersion awaiting me. Here's hoping I get by the test on June 3, and then I'll focus on next steps.

Best of luck to you both (and to Gecco as well).

FRS
 
FRS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> My frustration -- which I realize is showing more
> than it should be -- is that I discovered what I
> want to be when I grow up a little later than most
> people.
>
> FRS

I just finished undergrad and i will attempt for my CFA & MBA within five years. i also thought about pursuing a JD a few years after my MBA. what kind of value added can i use with the JD degree?
 
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