Why are you studying for the CFA?

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MJD

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I'm just curious why other people out there are trying to get their CFA? I would like to go into investment management, which is really what the CFA is designed for. It seems like a lot of folks think that this is their key into I-banking. I haven't met too many I-Bankers who have their CFA.

So why are you getting the CFA?
 
I thought it was to try to get into research, but after reading the General Discussion board, it turns out you need a Wharton MBA, CFA, and CPA to clean the shoes of a research analyst.

...demoralizing...
 
"So why are you getting the CFA?"

To impress the ladies.
 
These days you would also need a 'CFE', Certified Fraud Examiner
 
Hiro,

Wat r u working as? I m a Business Analyst working in a software company! Wat abt u?
 
Mike and Hiro-

IS or CS? I'm a CS.

I've been writing software for about 6-7 years. Finally landed at a small brokerage house. I'm hoping a CFA charter will prove I'm not just a code jocky.

Why are you other programmers here? I'm sure I already know the answer, but just humor me.
 
I work in programming at a hedge fund, and am taking it partly because I want to work on something and I am not interested in learning more about coding since I don't want to spend my life coding, and partly because someone else is finally paying for it again. I am not really breaking into the industry, as I have worked for an institutional portfolio management consultant and a few I-banks previously. My background is actually in finance (BS Econ MS Quant Finance) I got into the programming thing by accident (also because I think it is more fun than trading). It's been 8 years since I was in grad school so I figure it's a good way to prove my knowledge is still up to date as I am moving back into a BA/modelling role.

I think it is pretty hard to make a switch from programming to the purely trading/management side however. Lots of coders where I work quit because they can't make this switch but take the job in the first place because they think it's a route to the front office. One good route though is to get with a small trading firm that wants their developers working on the desk- there are often positions where they want someone who can code and also help the traders otherwise- I think this is a really good way in and have known people who have succeded (and in a big way) in switching this way. You get more of a chance to prove yourself this way- any big bank is not going to care about you if you only have a CFA and no trading/ portfolio management experience- they'll take some snotty MBA first, unfortunately.
 
Although somewhat irrelevant I also happened to be an undergrad CS major. However, I am not one of the many who are exploring the CFA as a means to jump ship out of IT to land a "better" job in the front office. The reason I have decided to dedicate the next few years of my life to obtaining the charter is to acquire the knowledge and experience necessary to obtain a clear vision of investment management's business processes and methodologies without the significant overhead of having to change careers every six months to get such experience solely by means of working with it on a daily basis. Although I believe one obtains
much more significant value in the latter I happen to be at the beginning of my career as an IT professional and time is of the essence. Considering the corporate climate we now exist in it is evident that taking a middle-of-the-road approach with a strong IT / finance background will help me be an integral part of the quickly transforming landscape. CFA is my tool to recognizing the depth and details of how investment management is performed, but I am also aware of its shortcomings relative to real world experience. It's a great way to begin but by no means will not be the only tool in my arsenal.

I'm glad to see there are developers amongst the bunch and hope we can share more experiences together in the months to come. My screen name on aol is: CFAonTheRocks
 
Hiro-

Do you think that the CFA designation can keep us in employed in the IT industry given the current situation?

I just can't think of an application in my firm that would require a programmer who has any knowledge of financial analysis. Maybe I haven't been there long enough yet.

I'd like to work for one of the "known" software package companies (JDEdwards, PeopleSoft, Hyperion, Oracle, etc) in a position similar to what you describe.
 
L104Stl- if you want to work for one of those companies/ with their packages, I would suggest getting an accounting background since that is really where those packages live in a company (Accounting/ HR). CFA is not going to help much with that- touches on it but only very lightly, and in a much different way than how an acctg department would be looking at things. Even just a few classes at a uni on acctg will give you a big headstart.

Hiro- sounds like you are doing it for the right reasons. I think given the current environment the way to go is to position yourself to be a designer/ BA/ development lead- the actual coding work is fast disappearing.

Look forward to hearing more about everyones experiences!
 
winter--That's just one of many things I'd like to do.

I think just about any professional desig will set an ordinary programmer apart from his peers (and his "competetors" from the 3rd world). I wonder if people in power believe this, too?

I've been trying to EXIT the IT industry for four years now. The CFA is my ticket out. I don't care if I have to take a $10k paycut in the short run to do it. I'm young enough. The idea of doing actual financial analysis (NOT sales, NOT "front office", etc) is extremely attactive to me.

I do realize that a "job is a job". I'll eventually get tired of that, too. But for now, it just seems like the right way to go.



Post Edited (Saturday, June 12 @ 2:06 pm)
 
L104Stl--

I believe what will keep you employed in IT is to constantly bring technological innovation to your company to help transform their business-- not just to support pre-existing processes. Think outside of the box in any organization is the first step to facilitating change. Technology makes business possible, but its also business that makes technology possible. I see it in terms of yin and yang, and its a shame business managers don't have the best insight as to how they depend on technology to make everything possible. IT is the largest portion of an organization's costs for a good reason. Outsourcing alot of the tasks to India (such as development) is a great solution to reducing costs. Companies can cut expenses all they'd like but the ones that will survive will be the real players who invest in innovative projects for their successful and quite often unsuccessful outcomes. You can only cut so much IT before you've shot yourself in the foot.

What if you're aligning yourself for a purely finance position that will within the next decade also face competition from outsourcing with a 3rd world country? Don't be concerned with the longevity of any particular position. Be more concerned with how you are differentiating your service from anyone else in the world. You can't fight corporate evolution so you might as well embrace it.
 
Hiro--

That is, of course, good advice. Here's my take:

The CFA is enough differentiation against the 3rd world because it is just as hard to attain there as it is here, and so few attain it at either location (don't give me an ethics lesson, this is a statement of fact: very few attain it). Programming skills are easy to attain at either location, and many attain them.

IT in this country will continue to shrink until there is nobody but the CIO and a phone line to Banglore remaining. If you look objectively at the situation, this is the only conclusion you can make.

Finance people are smart enough to never let this happen to themselves. They will erect and have already erected barriers to entry (such as the CFA, series 7 and 63) to protect their industry. It's too bad the CFA isn't a license like the CPA or Bar. That would be the ultimate.



Post Edited (Saturday, June 12 @ 3:48 pm)
 
Objectively speaking, there are no barriers to financial services. Anyone with a high threshold for pain can join the fun.
 
I believe the series 7 requires US citizenship, I know it requires proximity (it's only offered here). Someone who has his 7 and 63, please confirm.

Yes, the CFA is an equal opportunity pain inflictor.
 
To the programmers working at hedge funds, investment management firms, etc...

What types of IT/programming skills are required? I'm guessing it is Microsoft centric. VBA, excel, .net, sql?

Are there jobs that require programming experience as well as knowledge of the material in the CFA program. (CBOK?)

I know these are broad questions, i'm just trying to get a sense for what is out there.
 
In my experience, Java/ C/C++/ Matlab / Sybase or Oracle are the main languages they are looking for. Haven't seen much MS stuff, unless it's a trader or a quant just doing a one off in a spreadsheet to mock up something quickly.

CFA is useful for business analysts but not so much for general development, in my experience for a coder they are far more worried about whether you know how to hook into real time rate feeds, exchange platforms, FIX protocol, that kind of stuff- than whether you really anything about what the systems do. Its specialized enough they tend to leave it with the quant research groups and BA's who provide the spec. I would note however that all my experience is with large funds/ banks, so they can afford the specialization- in a smaller fund or trading firm, I bet they would be excited about a programmer who understood the finance side. They will generally leave the actual modelling and system specs up to the business, but it makes for a much easier conversation when the programmer at the other end does not need as much detail to know what to do.
 
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